Kara-Moon Forum

First a confession - I recorded this about 6 months ago.

I'm not sure if this tune fits the theme or not but would like to offer it anyway.

I would suggest the flute needs replacing with a real one - yes Kara I know it needs breath gaps squeezed in. Hmmm. I wonder if bagpipes would sound better for that part. We do, after all, have a pipes player here don't we!

A real whistle would also probably improve the descant part, and maybe a real guitar.

I know the 'Great Chimes' at the start and end are not exactly Celtic but I think they fit and add a nice air of mystery.

Well, for all that, do people think this tune is worth the extra spit-and-polish?

Will,

Go for the polish, back off on the spit. Good song!

The principle melody instrument lacks the depth and complexity of the rest of your orchestra... In my opinion acoustic instruments are not a necessary addition - Zyn sounds so good.

You decide how your flute will sound, and play it loud and proud ;)

Oren.

Will,
I'd be more than happy to work with you on this one. I can add guitar and whistle and suggest some minor improvements, if you like.
 ;)
James

Yes that'd be great. Shall I put a version up with the guitar and whistle missing?

Yes indeed....or send me a file by e-mail.
Could be fun!
 ;)
James

Here we go :)

I've put here in case anyone else has any interest.

Incidentally, when I composed both the flute and the whistle parts I just kept playing against the rest (it is a very simple repeating chord pattern) then chopped out the worst bits  ;)

Thanks Will,
If you have time could you give me BPM and chord sequence.. :-*..please.
 ;)
James

Oops. Sorry ::)

Timing is 170bpm, but it's in 6/8 time (phew)

Chords are:

C, G, Bb, F, C, G, F, G

C, G, Bb, F, C, F, Bdim, C

Will, I've started doing a bit of work on this at last. The 'sans whistle and guitar' file is 24 bars shorter than the original and actually cuts off mid-sequence!
Can you send another file without the drum and tambourine as I would like to try it with 'real' ones.
Also, do you want me to send files to you for mixing or would you like me to do it?....or should we both do a mix and compare?
 ;)
James

That was very strange. It seems my conversion utility chopped a bit off, but only the mp3 copy :(

Anyway, here is the correct one as well as a sans percussion version too.

I think I'd like to try mixing these down myself. Never done this with audio files before so should be a good experience. it would be interesting to see how differently we do it.

I can handle wav, flac, ogg & mp3.

Incidentally, it might be worth keeping copies of all the individual parts in wav format. if we make the grade for the new CD our resident masterers (is that a word?) would probably appreciate clean copies.

Gentlemen,

Go for FLAC. (or MonkeysAudio if you prefer)

Exchanging files in "compressed, but lossless" format renders a superior product. Files are large and take time to send/receive, but it's worth the trouble.

On the other hand, if sending files back and forth via e-mail is your only option, some folks have reported excellent results using high bit-rate Ogg Vorbis files.

Oren.

I use the new FLAC Frontend, it works fine and is loseless...  ;)

 8)
Here goes first tester.
I've taken one of Will's original files and laid alongside it three acoustic guitar parts, two mandolin parts, one whistle and a bodhran.
They are all played in various combinations during the piece with the finale having everything at once!
I intend sending all the separate parts to Will for him to have 'fun' mixing them to his satisfaction.
He should enjoy that. (http://bestsmileys.com/lol/10.gif)

Open to comments, as usual.
 ;)
James

It works. :;

Just so you don't think I've forgotten about this, here is a rough draft of what I've put together with Jame's guitar and percussion sections. I haven't added the whistle in yet as I want to get all this completely right first.

wow, this will be beautifull  8)
very mediaval  :;

k

One of the most artful backing tracks I've ever heard  :)

Is the synthetic melody instrument to be replaced by James' acoustic whistle?

Thanks a lot guys. James has given my some excellent material to work with.

@Oren
This melody line will stay. It is the frame that everything hangs on. I would very much like to replace it with a real flute matching it note for note, but I don't think that will be possible.

James has played a number of counter melodies which I'll try to insert for best effect. I'm hoping he has given me enough to be able to make it appear that there are two whistle players.

What would be just perfect would be if I could find some way of providing movement of whistle and tambourine parts in the stereo field so it seems like the players are walking around.

This is all being put together in audacity.

Separate the stereo track in 2 mono tracks and then cross fade between them  ;D
This will move them in the stereo field

k

Will,

Have a look at the attached file, it is an audacity project that shows how you can let a track walk in the stereo space.
Is this what you want to achieve ?

k

Thanks Kara.

I should have seen this ::) I've used audacity often enough for fade-ins and fade-outs. Never thought about cross-fades :-[

Well here is a new version of this with James' whistle interleaved.

I'm not entirely happy with the mix, but working this way is well outside my comfort zone. I would like to be able to take off the 'sharpness' of the whistle in a couple of places but haven't had much success with that.

I do have the whole project in Audacity so if anyone would like to improve on the mix I'd be very happy.

 8)
You're getting there, Will.
Yes, you need to fool around with the EQ on some of the whistle parts and a couple of sections; 1.45-2.00 and 2.50-3.05, the whistle is slightly 'ahead' of the beat. Those parts need to be 'nudged' slightly.
 ;)
James

Will,
if you want I could have a go at the mix
What's the BPM of the song ?

k

I would very much appreciate it, thanks!

BPM is 170 @ 6/8 timing

The whole Audacity project is 239MB as a .tgz file (any Linux distro should be able to unpack that). I can either drop it on my own website for you to pick up, or to any other one you prefer.

ok, just load it up on the respect ftp

k

Done :)

Right then, much has changed here.

Kara did a mix for us which is very good in its own right, but changes the nature of the tune a surprising amount. Effectively we now have two different arrangements of the same tune ???

However, it did give me impetus to have another look at what I was doing, and the way I'd balanced the instruments. Today I finally had time to get on with it.

The first thing I did was swap the synth flute for a soundfont one and that, I think made the most dramatic difference.

After that I recorded a click track and one at a time, muting all the other tracks, lined up each part as closely as possible to this. Unmuting all the tracks and getting rid of the click revealed a much tighter 'performance'.

I then did a small amount of compression on some of James' whistle parts and finally re-balanced the whole mix.

I think I have it right now, but any further suggestions gratefully received.

Will, nice to hear that my mix gave you some new inspiration  8)
The new version sounds great !

k