Kara-Moon Forum

Kara-Moon Projects => Collaboration Songs => Topic started by: manning on March 02, 2010, 12:37:55 AM



Title: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 02, 2010, 12:37:55 AM
if anyone wants to do a collab...
tell me.
my main fun is doing vocs in many different voc styles..
(croon/mor/comedy/pop/rock/blues/metal/..and even done the odd country style.)
i basically modify the character //persona of my vocs depending on what the song needs.
i use various "voices" depending on the song.
(i assume multiple personalities..lol cos its fun.)
in summary on one song might be an evil crazy  vocal, and on the next
straight up vocal depending on song style.

only styles i'm not into are screamo vocs.
i also enjoy doing lyrics for a song in case someone needs lyrics.
for a song of theirs as well as arrangeing.
it really depends on what the song needs.

OR alternatively i have several hundred rough songs that run various
styles gamuts if someone wants to use one of my demo roughs
to do properly as a collab.
negatives are ..
1. i cant do great backings cos i cant afford the big studio
gear i once had cos on a pension.
2. i have to exchange traks as mp3's cos i cant afford the cost of high
upload/download isp bandwidth. i'm on cheap low hi speed..lol.
3. prolly best if someone else does the mixing.
cos i dont have expensive monitors.
3. a weird situation is i'm getting old..lol..
so sometimes i have probs with vocs in very high registers..
but it varies by day, and i can sometimes pull it off.

just a final point.
i prolly have time to do 2 collabs a month ,
in a relaxed fashion.
(cos of other family responsibilities i have.)
but be assured , whatever the collab.. i do my very very best on it.
and if i cant achieve the vocs the song needs , i'll be the first to suggest
useing another vocalist.
the other thing i do on any serious collab is lay down a few
different voc styles to get feedback from my collab pardners
on which voc style they feel is most appropo.

as a guide to the sorta music i like in my personal collection.
i like most classic rock etc etc.
but also have a lot of classical music.

so if anyones interested post back//pm me.
god bless.






Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 02, 2010, 08:47:23 AM
Hey  :D

Just an idea to kick things off.
I just started getting in to Jamstix and am really wanting to try out the jazz/brushes kit, although I'm not much of a jazzist  ::)  I also like to mess with the acoustic fretless bass and fancy trying a bit piano for a change.
I did this song last year and wondered if that might point you towards some sort of style we could cobble together.
http://www.kara-moon.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5282.0;attach=3299 (http://www.kara-moon.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5282.0;attach=3299)

Let's know if you have anything 'in stock' which could run in that sort of vein  8)

BTW, we often exchange files in OGG format. You can get them as small as MP3's but with better quality. Render as OGG straight from Reap.  Drop your OGG's back into Reap and use them as they are. Easy.  :-X

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 02, 2010, 11:39:09 AM
offthewall  
hi mate.
hey thats different.
i love doin bluesy //jazzy vocs.
could you upload the backing by itself please ,.. ??
and i'll do some jazzy vocs..straight up old 40's style if you wish.
n you can tell me if you hate em or not.  
(by the way..my dad..may he rip was a great jazz drummer,
used to say "kids today dont know how to use brushes"..lol.
we got loads of the old one sided jazz records from decades ago.
i grew up listening to the style daily. )

ps..forgot to mention.
nice upright bass.
like the lyrics too.
do you mind if i try other lyrical ideas also ??
god bless.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 02, 2010, 12:01:45 PM
offthewall
just some added notes mate.
this is really growing on me a ton after repeat listens mate.
i'm hearing all sorts of things for it.
1. jazzy piano like you have at the end.
2. a lead break incorporating a sax say.
or..clarinet would be nice mate.
3. finger cliks ??
once i get the backing on its own i'll be happy to work
up a rough 3  minute arrange with your ok.
cos i hear lots of ideas for it.
mebe do the old trik of a key change for tension ..
for example the old trik of key change after a lead
clarinet or sax break.
(useing same backing..i can do that in reap to show you whats in my mind
for your approval. but we would need a sax or clarinet player.)
eg..
arrange as you have it..
then after piano break...a sax or clarinet break..
then a 2 new verses where at the dance she breaks a glass
of champers over the poor guys head ?? lol.
cos another chik was coming on to him..
and showing him her cleavage..and inviting him back to her condo
while the first chik was in the loo...lol.
(but mebe you dont want any comedy in it ??)
then after the 2 more verses on the outtro fade..
a nice jazzy clarinet wailing away to fade  ??
just some ideas mate. feel free to critique.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 02, 2010, 12:44:14 PM
 :o
Well .....

I was intending that song to be just an example of the style .... however, seeing as you're running off with it .... then I'll stick with this.
I'll extend the drum track and bass line then we can see what happens.  Gimme a day or two.

And that bass is this baby ... acoustic fretless known affectionately as 'the monster'.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/offthewall/bass002.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/offthewall/bass002.jpg)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 02, 2010, 04:17:00 PM
 ::)
OK .... I was bored  :-X

I made a new drum track. Taken the format of the song, without the ending, and repeated that another two times then put the ending on.
I copied the original bass line and just pasted another two copies onto that, to give a structure.  Obviously this is all open to change.  Just a starting point.
Whole thing should be 60bpm. Have put a 4 click starter in to line things up.

Here is a screenshot to make things easier to follow.

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: Oren on March 02, 2010, 05:02:38 PM
Sounds like the real deal, gents! 8)


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 02, 2010, 05:11:19 PM
offthewall
could you just gimme a stereo backing mix mate..
(ogg stereo if you wish.)
one mixed ruff file...drums/bass/piano/whatever other instruments ??
i'll be back in a couple of hours...
going off to try some vocs.
which i'm gonna send you back for your comments.
god bless.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 02, 2010, 05:23:04 PM
 ::)
Right.

I just put the original piano parts back in and summed it all together.

See what fits.  8)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 02, 2010, 06:51:36 PM
offthewall..
this a voc test for your feedback..
whether you hate it etc...
http://stashbox.org/810629/walltest.mp3

the vocal scats n lead geetar are just place holders
for say sax ?? clarinet ??
gimme yer honest feedback
my first objective is to see what voc style you like.
n god bless mate. GONNA BE FUN !!


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 02, 2010, 09:50:21 PM
 :o
I think we could be cookin', man.  8)

You don't have to use these 'stashbox' things.
Just upload here, in your post.  :)

At the bottom of the 'post' box ... scroll down and click on 'additional options' ... then browse to your attachment and send .... then we can all here use it for posterity  ;D

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 03, 2010, 12:09:04 AM
offthewall 
oh i wasnt aware i could attach to the post. sorry mate.
excellent. will do that.

so are you ok with me useing that vocal style mate ??
twas done quik n ruff  cos i had to collect my wife .
so theres a few flubs etc etc.
critique this arrangement idea mate.
1. do you mind if i mix up high n low vocs ??
as per the mp3 ruff.
OR...do you hear it as all low vocs. ??
2. how about a STOP of the backing ??
say at 1min19/20 secs where the singin just continues ??
then backing comes back in at 1min24secs. ??
an old jazz trick of course.
3. after pink champagne (or whatever other lyrics you
wish.). then another brief lead ??
and now a new key pushing up the backing by a semitone ??
ie as per first 3 secs as a new key intro (up a semitone..
for rest of song to outtro ??)
in summary after the brief lead followed by 3 secs of
backing ny itself in new key...
another vocal verse followed by outtro.
with a nice electric violin ?? soaring away at the end ??
know anyone that plays such ??

please critique ideas mate.
when i get your stereo backing..if ok with you i'll show ya some further ideas..
god bless mate.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 03, 2010, 02:54:51 AM
offthewall..
heres a ruff example attached ogg showing the key change idea after
"pink champagne" vocal in previous example.
the key change occurs at 12 secs in this example.
(note the vocs that follow of course sound "chipmunky" ..
cos i was just pasting n shifting up 3 semitones in reap
to show you ruff arrange idea mate,.)
of course the lyrics will change in subsequent verses..
so its all placeholders.
notice what i did on outtro fade mate for your critique etc.
another idea..at 1min3secs in the example ..
where the scat is now i could do a comedy talky if you wish
where a chik called doreen upstages the guys champagne date while she is in the loo.
n shows her cleavage. n both women end up pouring champers over his headc ??lol.
but tell me if you dont want any comedy mate.
i'll wait to do any more till i get your stereo backing mate n comments on ideas etc.
god bless.
ps..now off to bed for me.
talk to ya tomorrow mate.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 03, 2010, 03:17:47 AM
ps..
attached is full ruff  arrange for your critique mate.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 03, 2010, 01:11:32 PM
 :o    ;D

YES .... to all of it !

I'll get on it later when I get time.

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 03, 2010, 02:06:45 PM
Grat sound guys :;

Would you mind if I added a little mellow guitar to it?


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 03, 2010, 02:13:58 PM
Mario,

I should have a better backing track up in a few hours.
You're welcome to add anything, friend.
I thought you might have tried some sax  ::)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 03, 2010, 04:29:57 PM
offthewall..
ok...i'll wait for yer backing trak mate n will do vocs
for whole length of song if thats ok with you ??
n you can then critique.
OR..do you wanna do vocs ?? n me just do a
subtle laid back duet in background ??
cos if i remember you mentioned a duet previously ??
i'm easy mate.

MarioD
re mellow geetar.
go for it mate.


chaps..just an idea n prolly too late to try this.
but in my mind i hear the old vegas intro song trik.
ie..phased start of instruments at start of song perhaps ??
the bass motif, then the drums slam in, then a jazzy guitar
before the first vocal verse starts ??
sorta gradual build up of instrumentation riffing on the jazz motif
at start of song before verse uno ??
just an idea.
god bless.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 03, 2010, 04:45:35 PM
 8)
Here is the next mix based on the 'ruff' from Manning.

I got 60bpm.  In the picture I got markers on the Sections, calling a 4bar phrase a 'part'.

Starting in E.

Intro        1bar
Section1  12bars (3parts)
Section2   8bars  (2parts)       (ends with the silence)
keychange to G
Bridge       4bars  (1part)
Section3   12bars  (3parts)     (ends with the silence)
Section4   12bars  (3parts)
Outro        2bars

This is, as usual, all subject to change.
If you want to put in an introduction ... that's fine.  I can just slide everything along.  ::)

Do what you like with the vocals and we'll see how it turns out ... I may put in a bit duet later.  :-X

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: folderol on March 03, 2010, 05:45:15 PM
Mmmmm.

I shall be watching this!


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 03, 2010, 06:38:40 PM
chaps...
attached is the added vocal verses.
the whole shebang with offthewall's new backing..  
please could you just comment on the lyrics themselves
whether they work ??
n the likkle vocal motifs ??
ive left out my vocal scats n lead ...so mario etc can
fill in the spaces etc etc in the song.
once the instrumentation is fleshed out more and
after critique of attached , of course i'll do my final vocs etc etc.
but i need critique/feedback first.

if you notice the last verse (old songwritin trik)
returns to offthewalls original verse 1.

gimme yer comments mates.
bad or good etc etc.  

offthewall mate..
if you want my vocs on their own as a guide to include in your
reap project just tell me mate n i'll send em.

god bless.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 03, 2010, 09:33:49 PM
 :-*
Sweet,

send it on, my man.

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: folderol on March 03, 2010, 10:36:20 PM
Like the singing, like the song, like the style, however...

Not so keen on the amount and type of reverb used on the vocal. To me it pushes the singer behind the guitar.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 04, 2010, 03:25:19 AM
chaps..
heres the rufff guide vocs on their ownsome.
its a bit difficult cos i just had the bass to tune my vocs to.
what i suggest is the rest of the instrumentation get flushed out
then i finalise the vocs if thats ok ??
cos i hear various flaws etc etc.
god bless. off to beddy byes now.
appropo to this song ..i took my dear wife out for the evening..
just got back.

ps..folderol..the rvb is just for ruff guides.
helps my energy etc. will cut it down next run thru mate.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 04, 2010, 08:33:43 AM
 8)
Did some piano last night.
The intention is to cut and use sections to intersperse with the other instruments as we get them.

I just taken the latest vocal from manning and dropped it in to this mix to see how things scan.  :-*

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 04, 2010, 01:22:35 PM
offthewall.
re  mix3.
just some ideas mate.
1. bass trak.
mebe pan center ?? eq to bring out the lower mids more ??
on my vocs at the front i put some of your backing trak
so you could line up your end mate.
you can delete that bit at front if you wish.,
but listening back to the mix start i rather like how the bass sounds
with that bit of rvb. but you or others might not.
sorta has a "character". //mojo etc etc.
2. piano.
i like the tinkly higher piano notes//honky tonk.
mebe tighten up the lower comping ??

i feel the key change works...your opinion ??
does it make things more difficult for you
re the bass ??

i'm just gonna muck around for fun..with some geetar rhythm idea today..
which can be replaced by mario, 
if i get something usefull..will send it to ya.


god bless.
ed.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 04, 2010, 01:26:20 PM
manning,

comments.
I haven't done any sort of processing yet. No EQ's or other treatment.  That is all to be done once we get final instrumentation.  The bass is actually recorded mono and just dropped in to the middle of the mix.  Key change is great.

As said... will work on the fine tunings of the mix at a later stage.

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 04, 2010, 02:52:23 PM
offthewall.
re your comments.
okey dokey mate. makes sense.

mates/
offthewall n mario.
i hear in the song a low down in the mix subtle rhythm guitar ..
with the occasional what i call "arrangement twinkles".
like the high one later on towards end of this example.
just some ideas for mario doing the guitar ??
in my example actually the geetar is too high.

btw...offthe wall ..in the example attached is this great finger "squak"
at 16 secs ..i vote to leave it in..
going for some breakfast//coffee fix..lol..
will check back in a few hours.

god bless.
ed.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 05, 2010, 02:29:29 AM
just checking in...before bedtime.
mario ??
are ya gonna do traks on this song mate ??
just curious.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 06, 2010, 01:20:29 AM
just checking in...before bedtime.
mario ??
are ya gonna do traks on this song mate ??
just curious.

I hope to work on this tomorrow.  Life had gotten in the way of my music.  The last four days Iíve been extremely busy but I should be able to come up with a part tomorrow.  I know what I want to play I just have to play it.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 06, 2010, 08:27:10 AM
 ;D
Thanks Mario ....
looking forward to that  8)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 06, 2010, 12:50:25 PM
mario..
moi also looking forward to it.
i got a question for you chaps.
(its difficult i know cos we arent in a studio
where song arrangement discussions can take place rapidly.)
how do you hear this song ending up ..
"sound picture wise".
do you hear it sparse ?? just groovin along ??
OR..with lots of likkle instrumental flourishes
(sax ?? harmonca ?? flute ?? violin ??)
coming in and out of the song ??

by the way Offthewall. fyi..
decades ago i went to uni , not far from you mate.
(i'm showing my age..lol...but saw Who live
with mooney on drums, may he rip.
twas a wild night. totally bonkers.lol.)


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 06, 2010, 01:24:45 PM
Personally I hear it sparse, think ďFeverĒ.

However itís up to everyone else.  When it comes to collaborations I generally overplay my part so the songís author can pick and choose what they want.  I just consider myself as a hired hand.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 06, 2010, 02:58:46 PM
Yes, I think I agree with Mario.

I usually tend to 'overdo' arrangements and throw everything in, but with this one I have a fancy for letting it creep along with instrument 'phrases' being dropped in at the right moments.

I'm looking forward to getting some more material to mix in.  :-*


Manning .... interesting that you know my corner of the world... we'll have to chat about it in another thread, mate.  8)

 ;)
James



Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 06, 2010, 03:47:31 PM
Here is my take of the song.  The guitar parts are the first thing that came to mind.  Feel free to use all, some or none of it.  If you want more and/or have any ideas on what I can add please feel free to contact me.

Iíve included an OGG file of just my raw guitar part, i.e. no compression or other effects.  This should line up with the mp3 track.

Let me know what you think.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 06, 2010, 04:25:43 PM
 ;D
Thanks, Mario.

Gonna have some fun slicing things up.  8)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: kara on March 06, 2010, 06:35:24 PM
This is comming together nicely, great vibes  8)

k


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 06, 2010, 08:35:26 PM
okey dokey...
sparse it is.
i'm guilty of often overdoing it. lol.
looking forward to hearing the new mix with marios
parts in.

ps..offthewall...in my crazy youth
i had lots of fun in the norh of england.
always had a soft spot for the north..
i'm a londoner by birth.
(sorry bout that..lol i had no say in the matter..
my grandad was from the north. )
god bless.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 06, 2010, 09:36:12 PM
Kara,
glad you are listening  :-*
Would your Azell like to contribute a few phrases on the 'sax' ?

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: folderol on March 06, 2010, 10:23:58 PM
Maturing nicely so far  8)


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 06, 2010, 10:50:21 PM
 :-X
Manning
I go to bed when you are just starting out ....

Do you fancy making a 'final' vocal ... based on the ruff that we already have.  Just the vox with no backing and no processing.  Do as before and stick a marker on the front for lining up.  Render it to OGG stereo and I may be able to get a reasonable mix by tomorrow night.   ::)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 07, 2010, 01:38:00 AM
offthewall
(btw in uk you are 5 hrs ahead of me.
8.21pm here , so your in beddy byes asleep at 1.21am.)

re final vocal.
before doing this...i need heavy critique//input
on the guide vocal, n anything people dont like.
1. are the lyrics ive added fine ??
if so i'll keep to the lyrics as they stand.
2. what bout the cheeky "she kissed me" at end.
ok for the song ??
3. any vocal words themselves that dont work ??
4. the general texture of the vocs ??
anything people would like changed ??
or..for example any phrase ive sung where people
go "ugh"...dont like it.
or where its obvious a note is very sharp or flat.
(i dont use autotune n dont believe in it..lol.)
i mean hit me with critique n i'll try n change anything
people dont like. cos what might sound fine to moi might
not with you good chaps.
i just need guidance cos often i'm too close to it.
and others spot what i might have missed.

if whole new vocs are needed , i wont be able to do it
till wednesday cos ive set aside wednesday the whole
day for this song (and thursday if need be) but sunday thru tuesday
i have family things with my dear wife cos she is off from work
n i like to give her some fun in her days off from work.

however if you want the ruff vocs as they are totally dry
(no processing) i can send em tomorrow (sunday) if that helps
with your mixing . (as an ogg file if you wish )

god bless.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 07, 2010, 03:05:08 AM
Manning, personally I would NOT change a thing.

I really like it as is.

Maybe we can talk James into keeping what he has now ;)


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 07, 2010, 08:31:04 AM
Good morning ...08.28 here. Just had breakfast.

I'm fine with keeping the vocals as they are.
All you need do is send me the unprocessed file, preferably in stereo and OGG.

I'll take it from there.  :-X

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 07, 2010, 01:08:51 PM
chaps.
08.10am here..need my b'fast..lol.
attached are raw vocs stereo ogg as requested.
no fx etc. dry.
(normally i send mono to folks, any reason for stereo ??
no matter.)
didnt realise these would be finals so ,
prolly need a bit o' clean up.
but simple in reap to do.
this was a very nice song idea offthewall imho,
i find it a catchy tune. fun to do.
music line up is at front (for deletion).
tell me if all ok.
i used one a' me diy mic pre's on it .
god bless.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 07, 2010, 11:06:11 PM
 :o
23.03 now here ....  ::)

I just spent the past 3 hours messing with this  :;

IT's COOKIN' (http://bestsmileys.com/music1/3.gif)


Another day or two, my friends ....  8) 8)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 08, 2010, 12:36:27 AM
okey dokey...sunday 7.30pm here.

have fun mate.
mario...got a question.
i have some geetar plug ins here.
would you mind awfully if i fed your geetar trak to em
n see what sort of geetar sounds i could get via experimentation
in the coming week. ??

listening to the song got me thinking , n i dont know if there
are any femme back up singers on these forums..
but arrangement wise...
there are various lyrics at end of verses where femme voc back ups
might be cool ..
eg..
"accompany me to the dance".
"if you come with me to the dance".
"to every gin joint in this town".


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 08, 2010, 01:37:07 AM
Manning, be my guest!

BUT if you come up with some outstanding sounds be sure to share how you got them  ;)


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 08, 2010, 03:36:39 AM
mario...10.30 pm here.
(talk to you good chaps on the morrow.)
heres an example attached of your lead "conditioned" mate useing freeamp 2,5
plug in from here..
http://frettedsynth.home.att.net/
at the link download version 2.5 and experiment
with the presets mate.
its a vst plug in.
i just experimented with one of the many presets quickly.
theres oodles of geetar sounds.
god bless.
ed.



Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 08, 2010, 08:28:23 AM
Good morning, again.

Hey Manning.  That is exactly what I was planning on doing today ... pushing Mario's guitar through some plugs.  I been using FreeAmp for some time, but have you came across this little beauty:
http://www.greenmachine.pwuq.net/Wurr_Audio_Engineering/Download.html (http://www.greenmachine.pwuq.net/Wurr_Audio_Engineering/Download.html)

it does a lot of similar things to FreeAmp but seems to use less CPU, which I find to be an added bonus on an old steam-age machine like mine  ::)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 08, 2010, 02:41:24 PM
offthewall
i once looked at that one mate.
but never really put it thru its paces.
heres another respected one.
your prolly aware of.
http://www.simulanalog.org/

theres also lots of stuff in the monthly
uk computermusic.co.uk mag mate.

i cant believe uk puter prices..crazee.
here you can get great stuff for couple of hundred
quid.
god bless.
ed.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 08, 2010, 03:20:03 PM
Thanx guys for sharing those URL's.

I'll have to take a look at them.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 08, 2010, 10:09:13 PM
 :;
First full mix .....

now, I'm used to just mixing my own stuff  :-X  It's such a different attitude to be responsible for the contributions of others.  ::)  I'm feeling rather 'humbled' by the experience  :-[

Anyways,  here goes with a first draft.
I think I may have a go at some back-up vocals tomorrow, if I get time.

So. let me know what you think.
You have to realise that I do ALL of my listening and mixing on headphones. I do make copies of finished songs and play them in the car, for reference, so am quite used to making 'aural' adjustments.
(http://bestsmileys.com/music1/3.gif)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 08, 2010, 10:16:03 PM
 8)
and, for 'non-oggists'

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 08, 2010, 11:36:05 PM
offthewall..6.30 pm here.
(by the way i get given a uk newspaper or two here.
the jazz legend dankworth died recently eh ??. sad.
born in walthamstow london if i remember. )

1..re..mixing.
everyone finds it a humbling experience.
your not alone in that mate.
one does ones best and thats all one can do.
i beat myself up all the time..lol.

2. re song name for this song.
i keep on forgetting to ask what is the final
song name for the song you want ??
i like the pink champagne title.

3. re your first mix.
well heck thats a great great start mate. kudos.
just some suggestions.
1. the "oooh" at 24 secs..bring it up a bit ??
2. i really like your voc conditioning mate overall. 
3. the word "but" at 1min49secs.
a bit too high ?? split it in reap n bring volume
handle on word down a tad ??
4. i love the way you got the intimacy of the voc..
at 2min45secs. i was hoping for that.
5. generally , but lets see how others feel..
overall the vocs might be up too high viz backing ??
mebe pull back a touch ??
frankly i was very worried bout my vocs...
as to whether good enough etc.
but ya done a great job.
6. you got this cute sound eg at 42 secs on one side of the stereo image..
sorta saxy. what is that ?? i like it.
7. love the "dressed n smiling " verse.
8. love how you did my ending vocal cheeky comments..lol.
was hoping for that mate.
9. ya know what ?? some parts of the backing evoke ..
difficult to explain, a fun sorta "whirlygig" feel.
i like it mate. cos the song comes across as fun.

overall mate..hell yeah.. its really getting there.
kudos n god bless.
ed.



Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 08, 2010, 11:48:12 PM
Hi James, you did a mighty fine job mixing this. 

However, now this is me and only me Ė others may have a different perspective, for my tastes and ideas around this song it is way to busy.  With the possible exception of the last verse, I had envisioned the bass, drums, vocals and either my guitar, the piano or the other guitar part only. The last verse could contain all the above, however I feel that even that verse should be sparse.   For me it sounds like a lot of competition for the available sound space, i.e. to many notes.  As I had said in an earlier message, think ďFeverĒ.

However that should take nothing away from this mix.  As I said you did a fantastic job on it and if this stays as is it is ok with me.

Just my $0.02 USD.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 09, 2010, 08:35:46 AM
 8)
Thanks for the in depth comments.
Manning .... those comments of yours are highly specific, so that's great .... just whay I need for fine-tuning.
Have you ever used VocEqPro-C from Terry West?  I love it to give a bit of edge to vocals. Get it here
http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html (http://www.terrywest.nl/equalizers.html)
As for the cute sound at .42 ... ??? ya got me beat on that!  That particular section is just drums/bass/two guitars.
That 'whirly-gig' feel that you mention is exactly what I was going for ... as conjured up by the lyrics ... that whole dance-hall impression.

So ... this has mapped out my next mix.  ::)

Mario .... sometimes I agree. I started out like that, but then the whole imagery of going to the dance had me wanting to add elements that gave that 'dance-hall' vibe.
I may do a secondary mix that is more stripped down ... just for fun  8)

Thanks guys. .... back to work  ::)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 09, 2010, 01:10:37 PM
offthewall (8 am here.)
re "old dance hall". (eg odeon ??)
yep thats what i heard.
it evoked images also of when i was a kid
on one of the old roundabout rides with
the horses going up n down like at
blackpool et etc.
(we used to try n pick up "birds" on em..
i wanted to be a carney once..cos great way to meet chiks..lol.)
i can see marios point bout "busy".
but mebe its a question of mix dynamics , bringing up the busy..
then lessening it ??.  

re terry west.
those look nice...
so many plug ins, so little time..lol.
god bless.
ps..manning seems so formal mate.
call me ed.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 09, 2010, 06:25:30 PM
chaps..
talkin bout fever ..lol.
last year i got the drumcore plug in that came free
with computer music mag from uk.
n mucked around with it on a short bit o' fever.
my vocs suck on this//pear shaped...
cos i was concentrating on the drum plug in.
just mucking around etc etc.
http://stashbox.org/817522/fev.mp3


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 09, 2010, 09:17:52 PM
 :o
Fever  :o

That ain't the way that I remember it, in classic form .... but  :-*
there really is something about it, my man.

You know .... if Cream had worked this number it could have started out like that  8)
there is a true 'Jack Bruce' vibe going on there  :-X
In fact .... if you want to continue this I will happily attempt to fill in the gaps.  :;

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 09, 2010, 10:32:47 PM
 :P
22.30 again ... another 2 hours sitting here  :P

Taken on board all comments on the mix.  Have added backup vocals and adjusted various other parts.
For this version .... I think it's a wrap.  :; ..... unless you tell me different, of course  ::)

More to come  8) 8)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 09, 2010, 10:37:51 PM
 8)
And ..... for Mario .... the 'unplugged' version.  :;

For this take I have changed everything.
Added reverb to drums, put bass thru FreeAmp, changed Freeamp and Greenmachine settings on both guitars and generally remixed to give a 'closer' vibe.  8)

Man, I been having the best fun that I've had in a long time.  :-

Thanks guys.

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 10, 2010, 01:49:24 AM
chaps..
1. re fever..
twould have to be redone from scratch.
i was just poncing about with drumcore n the vocs
suck.
i can do way better vocs hopefully... lol.
the version of fever i like is the McCoys version//arrange..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCGcb-DYsbI&feature=related
wouldnt mind haveing a proper bash sometime.
talking of cream...always fancied doin..
born under a bad sign..
2. re pink champers v2.
i personally prefer the fuller version.
offthewall , just an idea to check mate.
the vocs seem off center perhaps here ??
on the part "whoa she kissed me"..
right at end..i envisioned a little lower in the mix mate.
so as not to overcome the backing ??
KUDOS TO YOUR WORK ETHIC MATE.
ABOVE ALL HAVE FUN !

god bless.
ed.



Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 10, 2010, 02:39:54 AM
James, great mixing on both versions.  Everything is crystal clear.  You are right, but I think that both versions are a wrap. 

Thanx for allowing us to have suggestions.  Unfortunately it turned out to be double the trouble for you but you did one fantastic job on both of these.

Now which one do I like best?  To be honest I canít decide.  Both versions are outstanding.  Both are keepers!


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 10, 2010, 02:41:50 AM
Manning, I had completely forgotten about the McCoys and their version of Fever.  Thanx for the link as it brought back many memories.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 10, 2010, 01:34:08 PM
8.30 am here..yep...fever is a grreat song mate.
mario..
i prefer always to do originals...
i love this pink champers song for example.

but another cover ive always wanted to do ..
one of the few ive wanted to do..is one of my
personal fav songs of all time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iaR3WO71j4&feature=related
clever use of the Em chord etc.
notice how he does the main intro lik ..
sliding. i find one gets the intro lik sound better
up around the fifth fret etc.


i was mucking around with it for fun a year back.
http://stashbox.org/817507/sec.mp3
i was mucking with geetar plug ins..
so i was concentratin on testing plugs rather
than the vocs.
vocs suck n i can do way better.

i'm always up for any song fun..lol.
ps..another of my song favs is george bensons version
of on broadway. clever use of key changes round a 2 chord vamp.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 10, 2010, 02:41:55 PM
Johnny Rivers was one of my favorite singer/guitarist back in those days.  Iíve liked Secret Agent Man a lot.  Another favorite one is Poor Side of Town.  I have an instrumental version up in the forums.  I believe itís under pgmusicians.

You did all right on your vox here.  Unfortunately midi guitar sounds suck IMHO, big shock right  ;) Anyway attached in the intro via organic guitar

As long as you are not in any hurry, I have a ton of things to finish up plus itís warming up here in Western NY state and I have a ton of yard work that must be done, I wouldnít mind doing Secret Agent Man.  All I would need is the chord structure youíre using and a rough track of drums, vox and guitar/keys.

Your call



Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: folderol on March 10, 2010, 07:30:39 PM
James, great mixing on both versions.  Everything is crystal clear.  You are right, but I think that both versions are a wrap. 

Thanx for allowing us to have suggestions.  Unfortunately it turned out to be double the trouble for you but you did one fantastic job on both of these.

Now which one do I like best?  To be honest I canít decide.  Both versions are outstanding.  Both are keepers!

Yes it's problem isn't it.

I think '2' has a more live club feel to it, whereas 'no bubbles' is a bit more lounge.

Very nice work guys.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 10, 2010, 10:12:22 PM
 8)
OK, guys ....
I've had enormous amount of fun with this project.

Made a 'final' mix of each version and am posting them in the 'general' section where they may be listened to by others.  I also want to post them over at KVR as we are always trying to hook new members. I often think that our greatest asset, over here, is the 'collab' spirit.  :-*

Many thanks, mates.

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 11, 2010, 12:28:08 AM
glad you had fun mate.
thats what its all about.
it'll be interesting to see the feedback it gets.

mario...
re tons of stuff//secret agent man.
no rush mate.
we can have a bash at your leisure sometime if you wish.
but someone else should do the backing imho (drums//bass etc) cos
i dont have the studio gear i once had..
n if we do it , would be nice to do it right mate.
chord structure is a doddle.
you can look em up (the chords..) on google also.
do you have biab ?? are you the same person
as on pg forums ?? if so...you could prolly use the real traks.
where are you btw ??
i know offthewall is in uk, i'm a transplant brit i canada.
(wife canadian.)
god bless mate.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: MarioD on March 11, 2010, 02:49:26 AM
Manning, when things calm down here we will do Secret Agent Man. I have the chords now so I will whip up a backing track for you to sing to.  It may be hard to keep it as the original but Iíll try. Of course when Iím ready to start Iíll ask for others to join in on the fun!

Yep Iím the same MarioD over on the Pg forums.  But Iím not a real big fan of RTs.  They can be very useful for original material but I find them pretty much useless for covers.

Iím in Hamlin NY, about 25 miles west of Rochester and 4 miles south of Lake Ontario.   You know the real snow belt region.

Where in Canada are you located?


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 11, 2010, 08:31:18 AM
When you guys get this thing cooking I will gladly chime in with bass and jamstix (at least)  :o

Ed.  You in Toronto?  We have friends over there living in Pickering.

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 11, 2010, 12:04:41 PM
offthewall 
yeh we live outside T/O in a peacefull rural area
far far away from the mad rush of the city.
(but if it gets too busy here ive always fancied the yukon ..
no rush hour..lol.)
re secret agent.
sure..be glad to have you do traks mate.
the toughest part of the song i feel is getting
the correct sound picture , and particularly the
important hook lick lead guitar sound.

mebe i'm biased cos i grew up in the 60's...
but i feel the caliber of songwriting in that era was absolutely amazeing.
so many great songs.  from  USA and UK musicians.
as well as brilliant audio engineers that made it all happen.
remember they had at best 3 trak studer B series recorders if i remember.
from what i hear some used two 3 trak recorders.
and bounced tween em i guess. 

i may sound weird..but i love all kinds of music.
on the one hand songs i once did in church, gershwin,
rogers n hammerstein, right thru eclectic stuff
like winchester cathedral (remember that ??) , right thru slade (lol.) ,
the who, pretenders and tons of other groups.
for me rock music ended around 1980..lmao.
only the occasional new song today i like.
eg big n rich. or ive forgotten the group...
lady singer..."i'm here for the party".

imho secret agent is a major lesson in hit songwriting.
to quote a pro AE i once met yonks back...
"ya hit the punter with a hook lik right off the bat to get attention,
then again in the middle whack the listener aurally, then
La piece de resistance...finally on the outtro".
a good furthe example of this being sultans of swing.
hook liks all over the place imho.


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 11, 2010, 06:52:53 PM
just a note.
mario//offthewall.
re agent man.
i made the following notes based on the stashbox demo link.
in case you chaps want to do it for the fun and a challenge.
feel free to disagree with anything.
1. what i liked bout the ruff demo was the fast paceing n bpm.
hopefully we can keep that bpm. cos it bops along nice.
ideally make it danceable etc etc.
2. 2 minutes for it in length is just bout right i feel or say 2mins15secs.
3. heres the arrangement based on the stashbox link earlier in thread.
lick intro motif.(twice)
verse//chorus
lick again.(twice)
verse//chorus
lick again.(twice)
LEAD BREAK (in the ruff i tried to stay true to the feel.)
(its quite a long lead break)
chorus..followed by
lick again repeated to outtro fade with vocs over the top
as per stashbox ending.
this organisation//simplicity i humbly suggest will make it doable.
the real key is getting the right darn  geetar sound for the lik.
i came close on the ruff but no cigar.
its a very craftily engineered geetar sound imho.

offthewall..if you want, you could do your jamstix trak ,
plus bass (??) to get things rolling...
and post on stash , n i would be happy to add guide vocs n rhythm
guitar n the guide lead lick which will be wiped when mario does his traks.
so mario could do the rhythm n lead traks if thats ok ??

we will have to use stash of course cos we are only supposed
to post originals here i understand.
its just a fun song ive always wanted to do for giggles. 


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: offthewall on March 11, 2010, 09:36:34 PM
 :o
OK, Ed.

I'm busy for the next couple of weeks, but am certainly UP for this one, mate.

As for the 'stash' thing ... forget it and just post stuff here .... we are all friends  :-*

For the song ... may I suggest.
Give us : BPM, chord sequence, key, and a click intro .... and we can take it from there.
My own way of working would be to make a 'ruff' track, in Reap, with a 1 or 2 bar click track intro, then upload that as a template.  I would also give a screenshot of the layout (personally find that the visual often helps).
Post it up as a new thread in this section.
If you want to kick that off, then I'm sure we can all join in as and when we are able.
We don't have a thing here about covers .... it's just that we prefer originals ... it gives us a 'mind-stretch'  ::)  8)

 ;)
James


Title: Re: if anyone needs vocs//lyrics or wants to collab...
Post by: manning on March 12, 2010, 12:04:54 AM
james.
ok..we'll wait a coupla weeks.
no rush mate.
its basically key of Eminor.
bpm i measured as 178 to 180 bpm in my ruff i posted  at stashbox up thread.
i basically used the reap feature to measure bpm.
just play along your bass to my stashbox ruff mate n the chords will become
obvious. chords can also be found googling.
lotsa sites. just be carefull cos some sites arent correct on some songs ive found.
heres my ruff link again which you can import into reap.
its only 1.8mb.
and play along your bass with it mate n confirm bpm in reap.
http://stashbox.org/817507/sec.mp3
if you feel the pace is too fast tell me.
we can always slow it down a tad.
god bless.
ps..tell me what original musical  styles you like to do originals in..
(and mario too..) and if you wish i'll post a few ruff demos from over a few hundred
originals i got , if your both ok with that.
they range the musical gamut from out there rock to love songs n
soft stuff.