What is musical talent ?

[kara]

Does it uberhaubt exist ?

I wonder....
I do agree that some people realy don't have a feeling for music.
But from when do you have musical talent ?

Or is it just a matter of learning, persistence, rehearsal & work ?
As an example, one of the solo guitar players, Mark Knopfler said in an interview that he's playing has nothing to do with talent, it just comes from him rehearsing between 6 & 8 houres a day 

I don't even know if i have talent... I've started playing piano and keyboard and at that time i played around around 4 hours a day just to make sure it entered in my head and in my fingers.
Same with bass. I learned the basic patterns (major & minor) and learned some basic patterns. Then I learned the notes on the neck. All the notes, i never understood why a lot of bassplayer stay on those top 2 string and use only half of the instrument. Then I started trying some alternative patterns to what I allready knew and so on and so on. I started playing until my fingers hurt to much to touch those strings, but every time i discovered something new.
A normal learning progress i guess.
I still have to play every day for at least an hour, just to keep a natural approach to the instrument and to be able to play without 'thinking'.

But has this something to do with talent ? I don't know, it's just a matter of work in my opinion....

Feel free to dissagree 

Of course I don't talk here about kids that start to play piano at the age of 3, but how many of them are there out there ?

k

[rharv]

It can be taught..but natural talent exists.  The 4 yr old prodigy that plays like he's practiced for 8 years is a sign of this, even though you don't want to include them.
 Someone who can sing compared to those who can't hear pitch at all...seen that too. No amount of teaching was going to fix that.
 I was in college books for trumpet while in the eighth grade (won a scholarship to Interlochen high school camp at 12-13 yrs old); it wasn't because I practiced more it was because it came easy to me.  I had a friend that wanted very much to be a good trumpet player and practiced twice what I did every day just to almost keep up.  So there are different levels of talent, for sure.
 Then comes 'feel' and 'touch', the fine parts of a performance which are even harder to teach but are just there in some people. The performers that excel.
 I think talent exists.  As a teacher I'm surprised you don't feel that way.  You must see some students struggle while others breeze through it.(?)

[Laguna Rising]

mmmhhhh... this is a intricate matter and I'm sure many people will disagree but I think that talent exhist and it's like some kind of 'shotcut' to pratical skills.
I know talented players that spend few hours of practice and are better than others after hours of dedication to the instrument and technical/theorical lerning (:objective mode:)

just my 2 cents (€)

Cheers

[deaf dunderkwac]

besides what has already been posted, there is a point where 'talent' supersedes competence.
You can become competent in most any endeavor, but true talent infers where the mind coupled with physical dexterity overshadows 'practice' and I'm pretty sure we've all seen this. Never discount the power of 'teh force' >grin<

... I've discovered I'm naturally talented at doing nothing

[Fred S]

Here's a thought (or mumbo-jumbo);

How about talent as a matter of degree rather than "does it exist or not"? Everyone here has some talent. How quickly and effectively does one apply skills, abilities and knowledge. Some plumbers are more talented than others    Then there's the next level. With a relative perspective, when I watch a concert pianist for example, as playing at that level is outside my comprehension. I would call that talented. Of course, if I personally reach that level, again, it would be a matter of degree. 

Someone who can sing compared to those who can't hear pitch at all...seen that too. No amount of teaching was going to fix that.

Or how about those who can hear pitch extreemly well...or at least well enough to know that whenever they sing they are always off pitch    So, for me, anyone who can sing on pitch is talented. When it comes to music, my mind has always had the advantage over my body

[Van Greco]

I see talent and skill as two different things. Everyone is born with a certain level of innate talent for any particular task. I like to think of this as aptitude or IQ. So, to me, someone with alot of talent on the guitar would be some one who has a high guitar IQ and therefore picks up new skills much easier than someone who is less talented. Talent is not the ultimate arbiter of skill though. For example: Person A might be less talented than Person B when it comes to music, but might be able to compose at a higher level of skill than than Person B anyway because of the extra work they have put into mastering their craft. I think that anyone can learn to write songs or play an instrument, but it takes talent to be great.

[folderol]

I think you've asked a question who's answers could fill the whole internet

I believe that everyone has sparks of talent in many different directions. I also think that many people never get the opportunity to use their greatest talent, as it never gets awakened.

So a person could become and extremely good and seemingly talented cabinet maker with many original designs, but had they been given access to, say; engineering college, they might have become a brilliant  architect.

The very best training in the world while making a person 'accomplished' in an art form, will only enhance what is already there.

The brilliance of Einstein, Da Vinci, Michelangelo is talent at it's most focussed.

[kara]

I'm not very surprised that a lot of answers relate to the mechanical aptitude of learning and playing an instrument.
Now is this talent ? Or is this a matter of excercise ? I agree that (like Rharv said) some learn faster then others, so talent would be related to the speed that you learn something ?
Now how about this : I saw an interview of Marc Knopfler, and the interviewer said to Marc that he was impressed with the 'talent' he had... on which Marc replied 'talent ? no, this has nothing to do with talent, i'm practising every day between 6 and 8 hours....'

I do agree that there is a notion of talent, somewhere, but i think it has a very unimportant factor. Of course in this theory you have to count out the real exceptions, like the 4 years old prodigy and on the other side the people that have no rythmic feeling at all and can't count to 4...

With the experience i have now, I would say that it is much more a question of wanting to do something and perceferance. A known theory is that it takes around 1000 hours of practising to play an instrument and around 3000 hours to master it completly. And again i'm excluding extremes like professional classical or jazz players who practise there whole live to achieve a certain level.
But I would say it depends allso on the way how you learn it and how it is teached.
As an example, take bass. Beside hearting your fingers at the beginning  it is just a matter of learning patterns on the neck. And if that is teached in the right way, a student should be able, after a defined amount of time, to play allmost everything in a reasonable (acceptable) good way. I can't believe my ears when a bass player says, 'sorry i can't play in that key' ! and i'm not sure that is his fault or rather the teacher that told how to play bass.
But since bass is a lot about thinking in patterns, isn't it then more an aptitude of reconizing pattern (which is mathematical) then an aptitude of  music ?

The definition of musical talent isn't that easy....
 

[folderol]

I don't think what you describe is talent.

A skilled concert pianist can play a well know sonata and be applauded for his virtuosity. A talented pianist may well make mistakes but at the same time he/she will somehow subtly change the way she/he plays, so that well known melody attains a new dimension and is improved even though not technically accurate. They very likely will not know exactly what they do, or how, but the music will now have a soul that wasn't there before.

I've heard this in music, as well as seeing it in dance and art.

Did anyone see Torvill & Dean at the 1984 Opympics? There was a huge amount of skill in their ice dance, but there was something more, something that wasn't there at the start but developed thought the dance. It is no co-incidence that (as far as I know) they are the only couple to have ever got perfect 6s for artistic impression.