Kara-Moon Forum
March 29, 2024, 06:30:32 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: You can go back to the main site here: Kara-Moon site
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
  Print  
Author Topic: Can you test this frequency for me?  (Read 39726 times)
kara
Kara-Moon, a site built by and for musicians
Global Moderator
Kara-Moon Master
*****
Posts: 4907


Music is my middle name


WWW
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2009, 07:50:15 PM »



Thinking more about this I wonder if the playback variation is due to the processor clocks, or is it due to a reference clock on the sound card itself.



Doesn't look like that from my side.
I have the same result on my win laptop with a centrino processor and internal realteck soundcard and on my AMD linux machine with an external firewire M-audio sound interface ?

k
Logged

_____oOo______ http://www.myspace.com/kaazduo

www.kara-moon.com, a site built by and for musicians
Support us at : http://www.mymajorcompany.com/Artistes/kaaz/
folderol
Kara-Moon Master
****
Posts: 5296

Who? Me?


WWW
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2009, 08:19:46 PM »

Rony, the difference is you were working entirely inside software, so 'real' signals were never created and processor/soundcard don't matter. I was measuring the physical output that would be sent to an amplifier etc.

In theory, your result should have been absolutely accurate. In fact mine was much better Shocked although with a worrying degree of variation.

So far, the only person with reasonably accurate software results is James with Reaper.

What is puzzling me is that Audacity gets it wrong, and yet it was Audacity that created the signal!!!

Tried it here with Audacity and get the same (wrong) result as everyone else Sad

I don't know how much real interest there is in this, but if enough people are interested I could also 'borrow' the works sinewave generator, and use my DAW to record accurate real signals, then see what difference we get with those in both hardware and software.
Logged

If you have a poem, I have a tune, and we exchange these, we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
- Will
Oren
Moderator
Kara-Moon Master
*****
Posts: 5444


...just looking for clues...


« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2009, 09:51:11 PM »

So far, the only person with reasonably accurate software results is James with Reaper.
What is puzzling me is that Audacity gets it wrong, and yet it was Audacity that created the signal!!!
I don't know how much real interest there is in this...

For what it's worth,...

My interest in the sound technology that may have been employed by the Celtic cultures of Europe is what sparked this bit of research.  

Some sources suggest that as long as 6,000 years ago Celtic stone workers were using sound to cut and move very large blocks of stone. A 5,000 year old grave was found next to a pyramid in China, containing the remains of several tall fair-haired people wearing a primitive tartan weave. The builders, perhaps?

While looking for traces of the frequencies that these artisans may have used in their work, I came across six frequencies that date from before medieval times that made up a musical "scale" employed most recently by the early Christian monks to compose Gregorian chants. The church has since deleted these 125 chants from their reperatoire, leaving only the chants composed with our current 12 semi-tone scale.

528 Hz (one of the six) is most often referred to as having some strange positive effect on physiology and psychology, so I thought I'd compose some music based on that frequency. How critical the accuracy of the notes is, is a matter of conjecture....
It is likely that the old-timers were only able to approximate 528 Hz, so a tone generated within 527 to 529 hertz would suffice, for all practical purposes. Tuning my guitar and bass to octaves of the frequency is going to produce further variation. Using a BPM of 33 or 66 will perhaps provide some accurate re-inforcement of the 528 Hz theme.

Comments?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 09:55:42 PM by Oren » Logged

Wyatt
Kara-Moon-Collective
Kara-Moon Master
**
Posts: 2073



« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2009, 10:27:59 PM »

. Using a BPM of 33 or 66 will perhaps provide some accurate re-inforcement of the 528 Hz theme.

Comments?


Why does 33 or 66 bpm reinforce the 528 hz?

Cool

Wyatt
Logged

Oren
Moderator
Kara-Moon Master
*****
Posts: 5444


...just looking for clues...


« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2009, 10:58:32 PM »

. Using a BPM of 33 or 66 will perhaps provide some accurate re-inforcement of the 528 Hz theme.
Comments?
Why does 33 or 66 bpm reinforce the 528 hz?

Er,
Probably just a mistake from your buddy, the mathematical moron...

Question: if you wanted to choose a BPM between 30 and 200 that would effectively be an "octave" of 528 Hz, what would it be?

I know hertz(cycles per second) is a different measurement than beats per minute, but they both represent a frequency, and therefore should be comparable.... I think.... Huh Grin Kiss

Logged

Wyatt
Kara-Moon-Collective
Kara-Moon Master
**
Posts: 2073



« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2009, 11:11:12 PM »

. Using a BPM of 33 or 66 will perhaps provide some accurate re-inforcement of the 528 Hz theme.
Comments?
Why does 33 or 66 bpm reinforce the 528 hz?

Er,
Probably just a mistake from your buddy, the mathematical moron...

Question: if you wanted to choose a BPM between 30 and 200 that would effectively be an "octave" of 528 Hz, what would it be?

I know hertz(cycles per second) is a different measurement than beats per minute, but they both represent a frequency, and therefore should be comparable.... I think.... Huh Grin Kiss



I ran across a similar puzzle the other day on 2 different therapeutic electrical  devices..one has a selection of .03 hz, 8 hz, and 80 hz..while the other one has a variable selection of "rate" from 2 to 200, but no clue as to 2 to 200 'what'. If it is hz, then would 2 hz = 120 bpm??  or would this be like trying to compare apples and bicycles??

I do notice something in the 'trust-your-ears' category, though..

..there is always a certain tempo, or narrow range of tempo, within which a song feels the most right. Very often that narrow range seems awfully narrow.

It would be interesting to see what that sort of gut-check tempo might turn out to be.

Life's a workaround,

Cool

Wyatt

Logged

Oren
Moderator
Kara-Moon Master
*****
Posts: 5444


...just looking for clues...


« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2009, 11:49:48 PM »

Why does 33 or 66 bpm reinforce the 528 hz?
Quote
Er,
Probably just a mistake from your buddy, the mathematical moron...
Question: if you wanted to choose a BPM between 30 and 200 that would effectively be an "octave" of 528 Hz, what would it be?
I know hertz(cycles per second) is a different measurement than beats per minute, but they both represent a frequency, and therefore should be comparable.... I think.... Huh Grin Kiss


...then would 2 hz = 120 bpm??  or would this be like trying to compare apples and bicycles??

I do notice something in the 'trust-your-ears' category, though..
..there is always a certain tempo, or narrow range of tempo, within which a song feels the most right. Very often that narrow range seems awfully narrow.
It would be interesting to see what that sort of gut-check tempo might turn out to be...

Gut-check... that's beautiful! Cheesy 

Anybody have a clue as to how to equate hertz with beats-per-minute so a musician could calculate a BPM that would be a low octave of 528 Hz? 
Does 1 Hz equal 60bpm. Therefore 33 Hz = 1980bpm?
 Therefore 2.0625Hz = 123.75bpm and would be a low octave of 528 Hz?
 As would 1.03125Hz and 61.875bpm...?                ..........woh, my brain is getting scrambled..................... Roll Eyes
Logged

Wyatt
Kara-Moon-Collective
Kara-Moon Master
**
Posts: 2073



« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2009, 12:04:23 AM »

Why does 33 or 66 bpm reinforce the 528 hz?
Quote
Er,
Probably just a mistake from your buddy, the mathematical moron...
Question: if you wanted to choose a BPM between 30 and 200 that would effectively be an "octave" of 528 Hz, what would it be?
I know hertz(cycles per second) is a different measurement than beats per minute, but they both represent a frequency, and therefore should be comparable.... I think.... Huh Grin Kiss


...then would 2 hz = 120 bpm??  or would this be like trying to compare apples and bicycles??

I do notice something in the 'trust-your-ears' category, though..
..there is always a certain tempo, or narrow range of tempo, within which a song feels the most right. Very often that narrow range seems awfully narrow.
It would be interesting to see what that sort of gut-check tempo might turn out to be...

Gut-check... that's beautiful! Cheesy  

Anybody have a clue as to how to equate hertz with beats-per-minute so a musician could calculate a BPM that would be a low octave of 528 Hz?  
Does 1 Hz equal 60bpm. Therefore 33 Hz = 1980bpm?
 Therefore 2.0625Hz = 123.75bpm and would be a low octave of 528 Hz?
 As would 1.03125Hz and 61.875bpm...?                ..........woh, my brain is getting scrambled..................... Roll Eyes

..lots of maths.  Sad

ω = 2πf and f = \omega/(2\pi) \,.

..lot of hmmm....
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 12:07:57 AM by Wyatt » Logged

Alienz
Jr. Member
*
Posts: 76


WWW
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2009, 12:16:18 AM »

dont know if this has anything to do with it but the number 66 rang a bell with me.
Heartbeat at utmost relaxation is around 66 or 67 bmp
The 'ideal' bpm to dance to , that is to say which tempo humans on average can dance the longest to continously seems to be around 132 (which is 2x 66?  Shocked )

Nevermind, carry on... Wink
Logged
Oren
Moderator
Kara-Moon Master
*****
Posts: 5444


...just looking for clues...


« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2009, 12:37:38 AM »

dont know if this has anything to do with it but the number 66 rang a bell with me.
Heartbeat at utmost relaxation is around 66 or 67 bmp
The 'ideal' bpm to dance to , that is to say which tempo humans on average can dance the longest to continously seems to be around 132 (which is 2x 66?  Shocked )

Nevermind, carry on... Wink

Yes, there are a lot significant frequencies in psychology and physiology, each with their own potential application. Fascinating for a musician, who is working with "events over time".

My focus at this time is to try and implement the frequencies from this ancient "scale" in some sort of useful arrangement, so perhaps we can eventually re-learn to use music not only as a form of entertainment and pleasant sound, but also as a tool to fundamentally improve the health of mind and body.
If I sound like a bit of a nutcase right now, cut me some slack - I'm a guitar player - it's mandatory.... Afro
Logged

Wyatt
Kara-Moon-Collective
Kara-Moon Master
**
Posts: 2073



« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2009, 12:58:27 AM »

If I sound like a bit of a nutcase right now, cut me some slack - I'm a guitar player - it's mandatory.... Afro

No worries, mate..you're an official guitar player, and that cuts you
one whole lotta slack..

Like Billy Bass says:

"Don't worry. Be happy"

ok..ok..yeah, I *do* remember Meher Baba and Bobby McFerrin, but
Billy was so much more....tangible.  Grin

Cool

Wyatt


Logged

folderol
Kara-Moon Master
****
Posts: 5296

Who? Me?


WWW
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2009, 08:22:47 AM »

Me again (I really must stop this calling in from work)
When I was young and {cough} handsome {cough} Hz used to be called cycles per second... rather gives the game away Smiley
Logged

If you have a poem, I have a tune, and we exchange these, we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
- Will
Alienz
Jr. Member
*
Posts: 76


WWW
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2009, 12:32:49 PM »

dont know if this has anything to do with it but the number 66 rang a bell with me.
Heartbeat at utmost relaxation is around 66 or 67 bmp
The 'ideal' bpm to dance to , that is to say which tempo humans on average can dance the longest to continously seems to be around 132 (which is 2x 66?  Shocked )

Nevermind, carry on... Wink

Yes, there are a lot significant frequencies in psychology and physiology, each with their own potential application. Fascinating for a musician, who is working with "events over time".

My focus at this time is to try and implement the frequencies from this ancient "scale" in some sort of useful arrangement, so perhaps we can eventually re-learn to use music not only as a form of entertainment and pleasant sound, but also as a tool to fundamentally improve the health of mind and body.
If I sound like a bit of a nutcase right now, cut me some slack - I'm a guitar player - it's mandatory.... Afro


I was very interested in the psychology/music combination years ago (believe it or not, I actually have a university degree in clinical psychology  Shocked ), read almost anything I could find on the subject. In the end it all overwhelmed me a bit and I stopped reading about it. I did also find several 'classification-lists' then of what frequencies can have effects on humans but a lot of those lists seem to contadict eachother or lack any scientific basis.
I suspect that there are some 'universal' frequencies that have effect on most humans but also that different people respond differently to certain freqs. Most fysiological processes in the human body all have some kind of rhythm and the body consist also partly of water which also reacts/vibrates too sound.

Still a intersting way too approach making music though, like you said, never hurt to experiment with it as I have done myself sometimes. I also wanted to do something with old scales years ago, never got around to doing it. The scale I found was also an pre-christian one, based on of of those  (bronze age?) very large horns.
Logged
Oren
Moderator
Kara-Moon Master
*****
Posts: 5444


...just looking for clues...


« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2009, 03:56:20 PM »

When I was young and {cough} handsome {cough} Hz used to be called cycles per second... rather gives the game away Smiley

That closes it, then. Just a matter of simple math to find lower "octaves" of a cycles-per-second frequency in beats-per-minute. Using that BPM to reinforce the central frequency in a composition sounds like a viable strategy. Cool

Will,
Had you thought of getting that cough attended to....?.... Grin
Logged

Wyatt
Kara-Moon-Collective
Kara-Moon Master
**
Posts: 2073



« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2009, 04:11:33 PM »

Can't wait to hear what you do with this!

Cool

Wyatt
Logged

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.047 seconds with 20 queries.