A=432Hz

[Oren]

The song I'm currently working on is performed from the outset with the instruments tuned 8Hz below "concert pitch" so that A=432Hz rather than our current European/North American standard of A=440Hz.

While mixing with AKG K240DF semi-open headphones, I was aware of some irritation as I could hear the television in the background with its soundtrack music pitched at A=440Hz. The TV sound clashed noticeably with my headphone mix.

Then, the irritation stopped...?  I looked over, to see that my wife had changed the channel to "APTN", our Aboriginal Peoples Television Network, and most (not all) of the music in its soundtrack programming (at least during that time) was performed/recorded in the A=432 pitch in which I am working.
What the....?
If I find out what the story is (on their choice of alternate-pitched music), I'll post about it here.

[folderol]

Interesting.

I wonder how many people know that concert pitch used to be based on C = 256Hz (an exact power of 2), which would give A as approximately  431Hz

[Oren]

...I wonder how many people know that concert pitch used to be based on C = 256Hz (an exact power of 2), which would give A as approximately  431Hz...

That's news to me.

Perhaps C=256Hz meshes with the concept that, at this pitch, the notes of the scale mathematically express the "Phi" relationship which purportedly reflects the relative measurements of objects in nature.
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/perfect_spirals_030917.html
http://www.goldennumber.net/music.htm
Apparently, Bob Moog thinks there's something of value in this: http://www.seriouscomposer.com/PhiMusic.htm

[folderol]

Ha! I notice your second reference mentions a tuning of C = 256

The reason I knew about this was that when I was a child we had an ancient wooden-framed piano at home (it's what I played my very first tunes on). Being both old, and wooden framed it was impossible to tune it up to normal concert pitch, It's only half a semitone or so, but the extra stress of all those string would almost certainly have broken it's frame. The piano tuner contemplated tuning it down to B, but decided it would sound awful and thought lack of tension might also cause problems. Eventually after scouring London (where we lived at the time) someone was able to come up with an old C tuning fork, which then lived inside the piano.

P.S
The piano was apparently in the house when my parents moved in, and it stayed there when we left.

[Oren]

Ha! I notice your second reference mentions a tuning of C = 256

Yes... "The controversy over tuning still rages, with proponents of A432 or C256 as being more natural tunings than the current standard."

Interesting about the old piano, and old-school tuning fork.

The other quote from that same article that caught my interest: "A432 was often used by classical composers and results in a tuning of the whole number frequencies that are connected to numbers used in the construction of a variety of ancient works and sacred sites, such as the Great Pyramid of Egypt."
A pervasive historical/mathematical theme?

[bvdp]

Just be careful if you want other people to play with you A lot of modern instruments (eg, sax, clarinet, various horns) can't be tuned to a tuning other than A=440 and stay in tune over the whole instrument. And pity the poor piano player who has to call in the tuner.

Otherwise, enjoy ... and I'm one who can't tell the difference ... well, at least I don't think I can

[Oren]

...A lot of modern instruments (eg, sax, clarinet, various horns) can't be tuned to a tuning other than A=440 and stay in tune over the whole instrument. And pity the poor piano player who has to call in the tuner...

Agreed.
This brings us to a truly modern phenomenon - the wind controller and digital keyboard. Within broad limits, adjustable to any scale and pitch you please.
Not as "legitimate" as the acoustic instruments, perhaps, but a step toward artistic freedom...

[MarioD]

This is a very interesting and educational tread, especially when Will brought up the old piano story.  My wife has a very old three-quarter-size upright piano; on a side note it is also very heavy! It is too old to tune to A440 because of the string tension but it never occurred to me to check it out.  So I just did and guess what?  It is tuned to A431.  How weird is that?

Anyway my guitar and her piano are mutually exclusive, as they sound terrible together do to the tuning. Note that it has nothing to do with our playing  abilities

[folderol]

This is a very interesting and educational tread, especially when Will brought up the old piano story.  My wife has a very old three-quarter-size upright piano; on a side note it is also very heavy! It is too old to tune to A440 because of the string tension but it never occurred to me to check it out.  So I just did and guess what?  It is tuned to A431.  How weird is that?

Wow! Spooky
In all these years, you are the first person I've come across with a similar situation!

Anyway my guitar and her piano are mutually exclusive, as they sound terrible together do to the tuning. Note that it has nothing to do with our playing  abilities

I bet she was looking over your shoulder when you wrote that

Hmmm.
So when are we going to get a collab between your missus and Oren?

[MarioD]

Wow! Spooky
In all these years, you are the first person I've come across with a similar situation!

You are the first person I’ve come across with a similar situation also.  This is getting weirder with each post     Below is a picture of that 8 ton behemoth with 88 keys.

I bet she was looking over your shoulder when you wrote that

No not really.  She has had only about 6 months of piano lessons when she was about 10 years old. She never saw a piano again until I bought her this one around 20 years later. When she retired a couple of years ago she had the time to put some serious effort into playing the instrument. She has done remarkably well.  She can not jam however.  I can not tell her to play say C-Am-Dm7-G7 as she has no idea what those chords are unless the notes are written on staff paper!  She can play almost anything if it is written correctly.  She is at the point that if a score has a mistake in it she can figure out what note is wrong and she corrects it.  I give her a lot of credit for her piano playing success.

[Oren]

It is too old to tune to A440 because of the string tension but it never occurred to me to check it out.  So I just did and guess what?  It is tuned to A431.  How weird is that?

Cool! I had heard (can't remember where...) that Mozart, Bach, and those oldsters who composed and performed on keyboard instruments tuned them to A=432Hz.

Sweet piano, by the way! Ever wonder where you'll find someone who can work with A=432Hz when it comes time to give it a tune-up?

[MarioD]

Actually Oren we have a professional come in twice a year and tune it. 

We live very close to Rochester NY, the city that houses both the Eastman School of Music and the Hockstien School of Music; two world renown schools of music.  The piano tuner we use also tunes the pianos for those schools.  I’ll have to ask him what he tunes those pianos too! I know he tunes them once a month!

[Oren]

Actually Oren we have a professional come in twice a year and tune it. 

We live very close to Rochester NY, the city that houses both the Eastman School of Music and the Hockstien School of Music; two world renown schools of music.  The piano tuner we use also tunes the pianos for those schools.  I’ll have to ask him what he tunes those pianos too! I know he tunes them once a month!

Woh! ...

[Mentious]

I am very interested in this.

When I first saw some YouTube vids that presented the two tones, 432 and 440, I could easily tell they felt different, with the 432 feeling more pleasant. I was surprised by this.

Then the other day I was about to work on some music on ProTools and just started to hum a snatch of one of my melodies -- having heard no other music just prior -- and noticed it just felt good. My mind said: "This pitch just feels so nice and natural. I wonder if I'm singing in the "bad" standard tuning or something else, because this pitch I've spontaneously chosen feels natural and instinctive." I had one guitar that had been tuned to 432 a few weeks ago, and went over to it. I found I had been singing in 432, not 440! I think we probably shift ourselves away from an instinctive 432 continuously, just because of the sounds that are around us. I can certainly feel a difference. Though it's such a tiny increment, playing my bass in 432 feels basically different.

I am going to start trying to record in 432. I wonder if there are any keyboard controllers/synthesizers that let you tune to 432?

[Oren]

...I am very interested in this...
I am going to start trying to record in 432. I wonder if there are any keyboard controllers/synthesizers that let you tune to 432?

Kara, Moon, ElwoodBlues, MarcJX8P, and Folderol would be excellent sources of information on alternate synth tunings.

After some experimentation, I have found that producing the song in A=440 (for convenience with current instruments and software) is most productive. Then the file can be re-tuned to A=432, with excellent results. "Audacity" does it for me.
If you want to go this route, ask me for details...