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Author Topic: Cubase & my MOX6....  (Read 24300 times)
elwoodblues1969
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« on: September 15, 2011, 03:27:37 AM »

I copied my posting from the Motifator forum to here,because I am in utter turmoil and conflict over whether or should continue on with this ordeal and I need all of the input I can get on this;

Iíve had quite a few online friends tell me that Cubase is a nightmare in terms of itís tedious complexity and what a hindrance it is regarding workflow and they all discarded it and moved onto other DAWís....& Iím beginning to see why.

Whatís really disturbing to me,is that these people werenít even contending with all of the added complications of using the MOX,with Cubase...so I have it 10 times worse than they ever did.

I just spent 3 hours reading through & studying the article on how
to move a song into Cubase...verifying that all of the settings on my MOX6 were correct and meticulously following the instructions and yet somehow,I must have missed something.

After all my efforts,I not only accomplished nothing,but also managed to wipe out all of the track settings in my song,that I had stored in the internal memory of the MOX,as all he tracks are on the default piano setting.
Not only are all of the tracks in song mode pianos now,but all the tracks in Cubase are still piano sounds and the only way to change the sounds on the tracks in Cubase,is to do it manually,it seems.

I saved everything in song mode as a SMF to my USB stick as the instructions indicated,so why would this effect the settings that were saved into the internal memory?

I find it decidedly inconvenient that I have to shut down my MOX,just to transfer the SMF file to Cubase via the USB stick into my computer...wtf?
Whatís the point of having all of this built in PC integration on the MOX6 and having a USB cable connected to my PC and yet,I still have to power down to yank out the USB stick every time I want to move a song to Cubase??

Maybe Iím just being too impatient here,but sh*t man,I am making zero progress with Cubase thus far and I am trying to determine whether or not I should just return my MOX6 while I can still get a refund & save up for an XF6 and just forget about Cubase altogether?

I truly love the MOX6 itself,but setting everything up in Cubase is aggravating as f**k.

I really hope that the tutorial DVD will be out soon to clear up this whole mess and I hope itís effective in doing so,because I have never seen so many configurations and settings in my entire life.

Iím also hoping that in a few weeks from now,I will look back on this whole ordeal and wonder why I was so confused by all of this to begin with,because the DVD did itís job by revealing how easy it all is,once you have your bearings.

As far I know,Yamaha seems to be the only company that makes their own DVD tutorials for all of their keyboards and for good reason apparently,due to how comprehensive the computer integration is.

I only got involved in computer recording 3 years ago and now I really regret not having done so many years earlier.
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elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2011, 05:02:42 AM »

I'm in real trouble here,read this...


Hi - saw your post about your frustration with
Cubase.

Since I do work as a consultant for Yamaha, I
canít really say publicly on the forum that
Cubase sucks - but the fact is, it is the worst DAW on the planet, by far. I have Pro
Tools, Logic, Digital Performer, and Cubase,
and it is the worst one of the four.

Too bad youíre not on a Mac using Logic or
Digital Performer because you would never have
these problems there.

I strongly advise you to dump the PC and get
a Mac and either Logic or Digital Performer and bail on Cubase altogether.

If you can.
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elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 05:53:24 AM »

After some serious self deliberation,I've decided to use my MOX6 exclusively with my Presonus S1 DAW,despite the fact that the MOX6 does not specifically support Presonus.

My main concern,is having the ability to apply software effects to individual tracks from my on-board sequencer and I resolved to just record each track individually into my DAW as audio,via the built in audio interface and just keep things simple.

I've come to the conclusion,that I foresee no significant gain on my part,by bearing the hassle and expense of returning my MOX6,to save up for the XF6.

This concludes my crisis....now it's time for me to cease all of the cockamamie sh*t with Cubase and get back on the scene and finish my damn entry into the quarterly contest!



-Thom
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 05:56:38 AM by elwoodblues1969 » Logged

Oren
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 05:36:32 PM »

Since I do work as a consultant for Yamaha, I canít really say publicly on the forum that Cubase sucks -
but the fact is, it is the worst DAW on the planet, by far. I have Pro Tools, Logic, Digital Performer, and Cubase,
and it is the worst one of the four.

Holy sh*t! Shocked
Quote
I've decided to use my MOX6 exclusively with my Presonus S1 DAW... I resolved to just record each track individually into my DAW as audio,via the built in audio interface and just keep things simple...
Good call, Ump! Cool
The Yamaha is likely a quality piece of hardware, so use it for the onboard sounds and that responsive keyboard, and do your digital audio production in your computer.

- for what it's worth, given my limited exposure to hardware synths, my preference would be one high-end Korg that doubles as a MIDI controller, and do everything else on my computer with a DAW and soft-synths (Kurzweil was my brand of choice until they outsourced production to Asian factories... Korg has been making fine Asian-built synthesizers for a very long time) -

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MarioD
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2011, 08:17:47 PM »

I've decided to use my MOX6 exclusively with my Presonus S1 DAW... I resolved to just record each track individually into my DAW as audio,via the built in audio interface and just keep things simple...[/b]
Good call, Ump! Cool
The Yamaha is likely a quality piece of hardware, so use it for the onboard sounds and that responsive keyboard, and do your digital audio production in your computer.

-

Thom, you should be able to use your Yamaha as a sound source also.  You should be able to record midi from it into your DAW then play it back via the Yamaha using any voice.  You should be able to play back any midi track on it.
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The older I get the better I was!
elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2011, 10:38:38 PM »

I've decided to use my MOX6 exclusively with my Presonus S1 DAW... I resolved to just record each track individually into my DAW as audio,via the built in audio interface and just keep things simple...[/b]
Good call, Ump! Cool
The Yamaha is likely a quality piece of hardware, so use it for the onboard sounds and that responsive keyboard, and do your digital audio production in your computer.

-

Thom, you should be able to use your Yamaha as a sound source also.  You should be able to record midi from it into your DAW then play it back via the Yamaha using any voice.  You should be able to play back any midi track on it.

Mario,

I noticed that when I opened up my Presonus DAW,my MOX6 appeared as a VST in my DAW(but for the time being,I really wanted to get the ball rolling on my current project),so I began laying down tracks,by just playing my on-board sequencer and recording the audio directly.

I will tinker around with the VST end of things when I get around to it,but it will be a total hands on approach-for the most part,because closely following the instructions in the PDF tutorials really screwed me up,when I was trying to sort everything out in Cubase. Roll Eyes

I suspect I won't run into any major hitches,when configuring things in my Presonus DAW. Smiley


-Thom
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Moon
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2011, 11:20:42 AM »

I strongly advise you to dump the PC and get
a Mac and either Logic or Digital Performer and bail on Cubase altogether.

Thom, this is a very strong statement you're making here. I'm sorry Cubase didn't worked out for you, but I'm sure many people are very happy with it and judging on the music they're make with it, they should stick to it!  Wink

To get the records straight: Cubase is a great software, as is Cakewalk and Logic and many more... Only not every software fits the need of everybody, so what's great for one, may not be the best for somebody else. On that, I do agree with you!

Moon
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elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 02:31:39 PM »

Moon,

Perhaps one day, I will give Cubase another chance,as I miss the ability to utilize the transport controls on the MOX6....but I will need the help of a MOX6 video tutorial to pull it off,because I can't make any sense out of the written manuals. Huh

Yes,it is a strong statement,but it's from a guy who makes instructional videos for Yamaha and as previously mentioned,he is a consultant for Yamaha and he knows Cubase inside & out and Mario,James and a tech support consultant from the Presonus as forum as well, all feel the same way about Cubase. Embarrassed


-Thom
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 02:36:01 PM by elwoodblues1969 » Logged

Marc JX8P
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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2011, 02:38:59 PM »

Been a very happy user of Cubase for years myself. It's not perfect - but it's very flexible and usually very stable (the exception being some unruly VSTi's). What I particularly love about the newest versions is the track presets which allow me to define a track setup (say a VSTi with a certain preset followed by some effects and eq'd with certain settings) and to go back to it just by pressing a key. I've been using Cubase ever since Logic went Mac-only (and this was after Logics audio engine went absolutely unusable on my PC, I never could track the problem). I use Live as well but just for live purposes.

In the past we've always kept KM as a place where we discuss music and tools to create, not a place to debate which DAW or synth is the best. There is a difference between stating what doesn't work for you and just condemning said program as unworkable.

And to be honest: I have my doubts over professional users who harbour such strong opinions. Undecided
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elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2011, 05:28:28 PM »

Well....the whole point of this particular discussion,is the tremendous amount of difficulty,some people are having with Cubase & each person's problems are different..depending on what version of Cubase they're using and what hardware they're using with it.

Since you don't own the Yamaha MOX6,you have no idea,the amount of difficulty & frustration I went through with Cubase AI5....all of which,remains unresolved.

To be perfectly honest with you,if my Presonus DAW was one of the recording platforms that worked exclusively with my MOX6,I wouldn't give Cubase another thought,not ever.

Though I am brand new to Cubase,my unfamiliarity with it,shouldn't require that I buy a DVD tutorial,just so I can get started. Angry I made the mistake of asking for help on the Motifator forum and I mentioned what this guy had said about Cubase and all hell broke loose. Roll Eyes

A moderator on that forum,chose to have a tantrum over the fact that I mentioned that a Yamaha employee didn't like Cubase and he felt compelled to insinuate what a moron I am,that I have no aptitude for learning Cubase and that I should stick to programs such as GarageBand.

Why do some people become so insulted,if someone doesn't bow down and worship Cubase?

Perhaps if decide to go through with purchasing the DVD tutorial and/or I were to upgrade to another version of Cubase,it may clear up my issues.

Since you are familiar with Cubase and if you were to buy an MOX,then you are more likely to breeze through the configuration process in Cubase with the MOX....but as for me,my issues brought everything to a halt and Cubase was simply unusable.

I didn't have any problems with learning the MOX6's functions regarding on-board functions and recording,which was mainly due to my long experience with hardware workstations(even though the layout is radically different from Korg's)....but even with my few years experience with recording software,I couldn't make heads or tails of Cubase AI5,despite the fact that the online articles on the Motifator website seemed to be fairly comprehensive.

I realize that you have a lot more experience with software than I do and that you are more intelligent than I am,but I had such a ridiculously hard time trying to configure all of the functions of the MOX6 and Cubase AI5 and all of the various manuals and articles got me absolutely nowhere and on top of all that,a consultant for Yamaha tells me to forget Cubase altogether?!What would you do,in my situation?

It's also worth mentioning,that since I already have the Presonus DAW and that I am on a budget,it wouldn't make sense for me to spend extra coin on upgrading from Cubase AI5,especially since it is a fully functional DAW and that if I could just get it to work properly,I would have no need or desire to upgrade(at least not anytime in the near future).

I have not condemned Cubase for all of eternity,but rather the whole situation that resulted from it,was something I had to get away from,as it was driving me absolutely mad.



-Thom

« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 05:36:19 PM by elwoodblues1969 » Logged

Marc JX8P
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2011, 08:03:48 PM »

Hi Thom. let's set this straight: I'm not denying that you have a problem getting the setup right and that setting up shouldn't require a dvd or whatever. I'm certainly not implying that I'm more intelligent - good Lord, far from it. I hate as much the attitude of those forum members on the Yamaha forum you mention. Like I said, Cubase isn't perfect (what is, too everyone?) - but to jump from that to the conclusion that it should be dropped and/or not a good DAW (based both on what you're saying and the expert you're quoting) is too big a step and not helpful.

Like you said, I don't own a MOX6 (seen a demo though and it looks and sounds absolutely stunning) but I would recommend that - if the integration doesn't work right - you'd treat the synth as a normal sound source and record track by track, which is what I do. The reason I do that is quite simple: I consider everything I record with as changeable, and when I settle on what to play and which sound I always record it. This means that whenever I go back to it I always have the exact sound I originally had. Second, the synth can always employ all its effects and stuff to each individual patch and third: I prefer mixing in the box, using the Cubase EQ and reverb (C6 has a great convolution hall). The track presets allow me to quickly conjure up a specific VSTi or an audio track to record my hardware synths.

Tbh - I think your frustration is actually a sign of you being more determined than I am. Smiley I've long ago concluded that perfect integration was to complex to actually be easily maintained and to reward all the effort that went into it. I've found a workflow that works for me - and works very quickly. But that took some years of continually thinking about what I  wanted to do and what I actually needed.
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elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2011, 09:04:37 PM »

Hey Marc,

By my estimation(based on what I've read from you over the years),it is my opinion that you are more intelligent and it was really a compliment,rather than the perception that you implied otherwise.

Granted,a professional stating that Cubase sucks is crude,but I think he was expressing how frustrated he was with it at times and that in his opinion,there are much better alternatives out there.

If I had bought a paid version of Cubase,& he told me to forget about it,then that would be ludicrous & I wouldn't pay him any mind.

As for treating a synth as a normal sound source...if by that you mean recording as audio track by track,I have been doing that in my Presonus DAW.

If the tutorial DVD addresses the specific issues I have been having,then it would be well worth buying & I would be happy to do so,as I am not setting foot on the Motifator forum ever again.

Yeah....I think the whole concept of seamless integration as Yamaha calls it,is an oxymoron,as it implies that it's efficient & simple to set up...sort of a plug and play claim...when the truth is far from this.

On a side note,I am not all familiar with Sonar,but I assumed it was a competitor of Cubase and yet,Sonar is listed in my MOX6 as a Yamaha-specific DAW....interesting.


-Thom
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2011, 11:15:23 PM »

I've long ago concluded that perfect integration was to complex to actually be easily maintained and to reward all the effort that went into it. I've found a workflow that works for me - and works very quickly. But that took some years of continually thinking about what I  wanted to do and what I actually needed.

Very wise...  Very very wise.  I'm a life-long student type of guy, and I LOVE learning new things I'm excited about, but it's good to be reminded now and then that I need to go a little easier on myself and just have fun "doing", rather than pull my hair out "learning".  Very wise, indeed, Marc.  Thanks for the well-timed thought.  I'm off to spend some time considering exactly what I want out of my own Cubase workflow...  Smiley
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Marc JX8P
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2011, 06:34:59 PM »

Granted,a professional stating that Cubase sucks is crude,but I think he was expressing how frustrated he was with it at times and that in his opinion,there are much better alternatives out there.
Ah yes - but it's the music scene: so many ideas, so many opinions! Wink I've been quite frustrated myself with how Logic treated the PC in its final stages but even so I accept that they chose the Mac only route. Roland dropped the development of doing a USB midi driver for 64 bits windows. And all - like your problems - are perfectly ligitimate reasons for getting annoyed, just not for saying that it's not a good DAW.

As for treating a synth as a normal sound source...if by that you mean recording as audio track by track,I have been doing that in my Presonus DAW.
Exactly - keeping it simple! Smiley

If the tutorial DVD addresses the specific issues I have been having,then it would be well worth buying & I would be happy to do so,as I am not setting foot on the Motifator forum ever again.

Tbh - and here's a probably way too strong opinion by myself - I've found such dvd's rarely helpful, though once again that may be due to how I want to work. I mostly set out with some specific questions ('How do I set up a track?', 'How does that Media Bay help me organise loops?', 'How do I use keyboard keys to quickly choose functions?') and use the manuals or the internet to research these. I will sometimes read longer, general instructions but mainly these contain so much extra information about stuff that you'd rarely use (or look up anyway) that I'd forget too much. I'd like to know generally what a software can do, and know where to find specific info back should I need it.

On a side note,I am not all familiar with Sonar,but I assumed it was a competitor of Cubase and yet,Sonar is listed in my MOX6 as a Yamaha-specific DAW....interesting.

That's strange - I thought Sonar was related to Roland; isn't it a development of Cakewalk?
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 06:36:54 PM »

I've long ago concluded that perfect integration was to complex to actually be easily maintained and to reward all the effort that went into it. I've found a workflow that works for me - and works very quickly. But that took some years of continually thinking about what I  wanted to do and what I actually needed.

Very wise...  Very very wise.  I'm a life-long student type of guy, and I LOVE learning new things I'm excited about, but it's good to be reminded now and then that I need to go a little easier on myself and just have fun "doing", rather than pull my hair out "learning".  Very wise, indeed, Marc.  Thanks for the well-timed thought.  I'm off to spend some time considering exactly what I want out of my own Cubase workflow...  Smiley

Always glad to help! Smiley

(Whoa - two posts one after another calling me intelligent and wise - excuse me if my next few posts do have an annoying amount of smugness Wink )
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