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Author Topic: The Metronome...  (Read 12172 times)
SLD Music
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« on: September 22, 2011, 09:47:47 PM »

I'm not sure where to put this, but maybe some of you "live" players, or... I don't know... whoever has a viewpoint... can give me some pointers.

I've got a choral piece with piano accompaniment that I've been working on learning over the last few months (yes, I said months).  Now mind you, this is a WAY ambitious project for me, and it goes something like this:

1.)  Get the sheet music (it's and existing piece-- TTBB with piano accompaniment) (DONE)
2.)  Learn to play piano  Smiley  (This is a big one, yes, but I'm working on this--taking lessons and everything!)
3.)  Learn to the play the specific piece (it's moderately difficult for a beginner, and in d-flat (ugh!), but after about 3 months I'm very close to "performance" level)
4.)  Record the piano part (in sections if I have to) to my DAW. (NOT done yet)
5.)  Learn to hack through the pronunciation of the French lyrics. (Oy! What have I gotten myself into!)
6.)  Sing all the choral parts, record them, and sync them as necessary. (Ironically, this will be the easiest part for me...)
7.)  REPEAT steps 4-6 until I've got a performance worth doing a final mix with.
8.)  Mix it.
9.)  Unleash it onto the world.

There are many challenges to overcome there, but my current ... delimma concerns how to deal with the metronome.  The piece is VERY push-pull in terms of tempo.  It speeds up, goes back to tempo, and then molto-ritardandos and a-tempos again and again.  It will take me many passes just to create a backing track that I want to sing to that will actually work for the the song, and how I want to express it (and don't get me started on pronouncing it).  My question is... do I just ignore the metronome and the tempo setting in my DAW for this piece?  What if I want to add some kind of a backing strings track later?  How do you deal with this kind of thing O wise Kara-Mooners?

Don't get me wrong.  I TOTALLY understand the imoprtance of the metronome and the tempo setting in the DAW.  But with this kind of music, I really have NO idea what to do other than... well... ignore it.
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Marc JX8P
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2011, 10:05:24 PM »

My first idea would be to ignore it. Since you can record the piano part first and use that as a guide, you could just let your DAW work as a tape recorder. However - as you're a Cubase 6 user, you might even be able to use the new tempo-track detection feature. If that works as advertised you might be able to use the piano track as the source for a tempo track and that would mean that editing it all becomes a lot easier as all the bar lengths would be ok.
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Also known as Marc JXP
SLD Music
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2011, 10:55:22 PM »

Good idea.  I'll try the tempo detection, although I won't get my hopes up.  Heh.  It'll be an interesting exepriment at any rate.  Smiley

And like you suggest, if I can get the notes to line up on the beats properly that would make things every so much easier.  But well, we'll see.
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Oren
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2011, 12:21:09 AM »

Another option - in some DAWs - is to set tempo markers at each point the speed changes, and then set the new tempo at each marker to a BPM that reflects your estimation of the tempo your sheet music calls for.
Then your DAW click track will act as your own custom-tailored variable speed metronome... Shocked
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offthewall
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 07:24:09 AM »

From my own experience.
I almost always work to the metronome click track, in Reaper. I am almost exclusively a 'live instrument' player and it has really taken a long time to learn the discipline of metronome ... but I have found it to be an essential skill in multi-track recording.

The one time I have had any dealings with complex time changes was the last piece I did with Kara,
He wanted to have an experiment with using multiple time changes in a distance collaboration ... just to see how it worked  Shocked

It worked a treat.
Using Reaper, he set out the song structure, with time changes and ritardandos and send the whole project to me. I opened it in my Reaper ... and there it was, for me to work to.  Cheesy

Magic.

 Wink
James
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SLD Music
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2011, 12:47:23 PM »

Okee dok.  Well, as I get closer to being able to actually record this thing, I'll see what I can do about getting the tempo track to work with me.  Thanks for the thoughts everyone.
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offthewall
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2011, 05:31:10 PM »

Just as an afterthought ...
this set me thinking about that project with Kara.  I couldn't really remember how we worked out the tempo map so I looked up the old project files that I have.
The 'magic' part was that Kara recorded his piano/drum outline on his Tyros and sent me the MIDI file.
I dropped the MIDI into Reaper and it set all the gradual tempo changes automatically for my metronome to work to.  Cool
I was astonished, and it worked a treat  Shocked

 Wink
James
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SLD Music
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2011, 05:45:53 PM »

Good to know.  That may lead me back to Cubase's tempo-track detection that Marc was talking about.
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bvdp
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2011, 06:30:19 PM »

You do know that you can create a track with MMA complete with lots of tempo changes? MMA even supports accellerandos, etc.

If you have the chords for the piece just type them in. If no chords, you could enter either solo notes or just use the rhythm. Of course, a rhythm in a "classical" piece might not be the best mix for MMA which is really more suitable for popular/jazz music. But, it'd be a good start?

MMA might not get you to a publishable state, but should be a good/easy start.

Hope this helps.
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2011, 08:10:13 PM »

For something as complicated as this, I favour ignoring the metronome. I would suggest concentrating entirely on that piano part first. When you can play it through comfortably - and I don't mean necessarily error free - you'll be surprised how reliably speed-wise you can play it, and how much expression you can put in that is simply impossible with any kind of mechanical timing.

Also, I rather think it is the imperfections in timing on choral work that gives it character.

I find that in any new session, a first play-though is always wrong as my fingers stumble trying to remember where to go and when. 3rd or 4th play through is usually best.

Once you have that done, you can far more easily add in the vocal parts. For a start, you will by then know how the piece goes so there won't be any surprises. Also, the piano has a distinctive sound that can cut though a hell of a lot of mush - one reason it is almost universally used in choir practice.

If you want to add strings (or indeed anything else) later, provided you have a clean copy of the piano track you can use your DAW to actually see where the notes are, and line up accordingly.
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If you have a poem, I have a tune, and we exchange these, we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
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