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Author Topic: Concerns about Sonar X2  (Read 26206 times)
elwoodblues1969
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Studiophile,Audiophile & Synthophile.


« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2013, 04:20:35 AM »

Mario,

Mpeg 4 does work in Sonar(in that the video does appear),but as it states on Cakewalk's website,some videos will not produce video thumbnails in the track view area.
Yeah...it's great having a separate video window handy,but if I can't cut & paste the video,what's the point?Assuming that I haven't overlooked some important detail,I think Sonar's video portion of the DAW is archaic and a total waste...because Sonar's video support is the primary reason I bought this DAW in the first place.

Don't get me wrong,as I don't want to come across as a Sonar basher(because in fact,Sonar has some brilliant functionality & a very efficient layout with an immense amount of flexibility)...but Sonar's video functionality is very poor,it seems.

According to Cakewalk,this is their reason for the absence of video thumbnails in the track lane; "Some Windows Media videos do not report their frame rate to SONAR. SONAR can play these files, but cannot create thumbnails from them,so no thumbnails appear in the Thumbnail pane."
This is no valid excuse for why some videos do not appear as thumbnails,because my Mixcraft 6 DAW displayed video thumbnails with each and every video I imported into it!

If there is some way to cut & paste videos in Sonar,I haven't found it yet....but I have a terrible feeling that it's not possible,in which case Cakewalk should never have implemented video functionality to begin with,in my opinion.

Not too many DAW's support video,& the few budget DAW's that support video have some crippling shortcomings in one way or another and I'm assuming that if I want the video functionality I seek,it appears that I will have to spend a fortune on Digital Performer or some high end version of Cubase.

The way that I have always worked up until recently,is that I used my Sony Vegas Movie Studio to do all of the cutting and pasting of a video(before) I wrote the music and then after my video editing was done,I then wrote my compositions to fit the video clips I had made.
In order for everything to be synced up properly,I was forced to keep the tempo at 120 bpm's...so that the minutes & seconds of the video,matched the time/bar in my DAW.

I can't go on like this,to where I am constantly buying new DAW's,in an effort to accommodate my music video hobby.

If you've done any video work in Sonar,I'd really like your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks once again,for all of you help.


-Thom
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MarioD
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« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2013, 02:10:28 PM »

Thom, I don’t use video in any form on any product.  Video is something that I don’t do so I am really no help in this area.  BUT if you send me a short MPEG4 I will gladly see what I can learn for you.  At this stage of the game I may have a little more experience with Sonar so maybe I can find something out for you.  You know my email.  Just be sure you put your name and the vid name on the subject line so that I know it’s from you.

You have hit on one of my really sore spots when it comes to DAWs and other software come to think about it. They all try to be all encompassing and try to do a little of everything instead of concentrating on their core function. Both Sonar and Band-in-a-Box have printing but neither are good printing functions.  Sonar has one of the worst printing functions I have ever come across. Band-in-a-Box’s is at least usable.  Both forums have improve printing functions being constantly added to the improve wish lists.  MP3 burning is another one, how many half-assed MP3 burning programs do I need?  As I have stated in the past Sonar has extremely poor implementation of take lanes, auto-snap and now you are telling me video. These are things that other less expensive programs can easily do.  It looks like they are playing catch up and doing a poor job of it.  I have heard/read that other DAWs are running into the same problem. These problems are not showstoppers for me as I know the work arounds but others are screaming that if it is there it should work.  I agree with them!

I am not bashing Sonar.  It is a very powerful audio recorder and midi sequencer with some high quality effects.  That is what I look for in a DAW.

Sorry to rant and rave!  Like I said if you would like me to look at a short video I will gladly try to help you out.  I would learn something also.


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The older I get the better I was!
SLD Music
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« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2013, 02:41:48 PM »

I can't go on like this,to where I am constantly buying new DAW's,in an effort to accommodate my music video hobby.
-Thom

Amen to that...

Thom, I'm confused.  Are you hoping that you can actually cut and assemble your video inside your DAW and then export that video with music directly from the DAW?  Not even Cubase can do that.  Cubase can import a video (although like Sonar, it needs to be a MOV/MP4 video, so in some instance transcoding video before I import it into Cubase is just what I have to do), and you can cut it up and play back different parts of it in whatever sequence you want, but it has no ability to actually export the results of your cuts into a new video file with your music added onto it.  Maybe Sonar CAN do that, but I doubt it.  A DAW is for music creation, not for video editing. 

What I end up doing when creating music for video is going back and forth.  I either create video first in Final Cut Pro, and then bring it into my DAW and start writing music to it.  Then when I get a certain amount done, I then go back into Final Cut Pro, bring in the music I created and then cut the video to the music.  Then I export the video again, bring it back into Cubase, and keep working on fine tuning the music, and I'll go through this cycle as many times as I need to until the music and video are done--with the final export marrying music and video being done in Final Cut Pro.  It works great because I'm using each program according to it's strengths.  You can do the same with Vegas.

Anyway, my point is what it always is... learn to use the stuff you HAVE (including learning to set up your computer properly, and installing things properly, REALLY understanding what the difference is between video codecs and video wrappers are, and knowing what your DAW really requires) rather than looking for solutions in and spending more and more money on other programs, DAWs, or plug-ins.    Your money would be better spent on educating yourself on the tools you have rather than going out and buying more tools.  Just my opinion.  It's frustrating to try and help you Thom.  It happens too often that you may acknowledge my, Mario's, Oren's, Marc's help, and anyone else who takes the time to try and help you, but then you'll promptly ignore it while you systematically bash the software tools and developers that we and millions of others use successfully every day.

Seriously, I want you to find what you want.  I want you to be successful.  This goes much deeper than just installation issues, or a perceived lack of features and support, though.
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elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2013, 02:43:18 PM »

Mario,

I've been doing a lot of thinking since I wrote my rant last night and perhaps,it wasn't realistic of me,to expect so much out of Sonar.All things considered,I don't think it's fair for me to be upset about the limitations of Sonar's video functions.
Yeah...Mixcraft 6 does have a cut & paste feature & video thumbnails,but these are the only advantages and the rest of the DAW is very poor in all other areas...that being said,that DAW is useless.

In the case of Sonar,I have found it to be very stable,once it's all configured properly and even with the inclusion of video,it still runs like a champ.
Come to think about it,it's better that I do all of my cutting & pasting in my Sony Vegas Studio,because there,I have all of the customization that I need and then having the video run within Sonar,is much easier than running it outside of the DAW,because it only requires one play button & all of the start & stop points remain in sync and that's the most important thing.

Thanks for your offer,but I should do just fine as things are.By the way...what is half-assed about Sonar's MP3 function?I certainly don't need another in-DAW MP3 converter...but as long as it's there,I may as well take advantage of it...for it's convenience...unless of course,it's a problem..in some way?Just curious.
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elwoodblues1969
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Posts: 4478


Studiophile,Audiophile & Synthophile.


« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2013, 04:19:33 PM »

Scott,

My whole objective,was to try and keep myself from bouncing around from one program to another,when I am working with video.Believe it or not,Acoustica Mixcraft 6 allows you to not only edit your videos,but you can also export the edited material.
If only Acoustica would focus on a rewrite of the program to make it more stable and increase their production budget to do so,then they would really be onto something viable and I think people would be happier to pay a bit more for the improvements...but Acoustica's mission,has always seemed to be about keeping it as cheap as possible.

I concede,that it wasn't a good idea for me to assume that Sonar could function in the same manner in the area of video as Mixcraft...but then,your claim that it's highly probable that no DAW can export edited video,is also an assumption...when in fact,Mixcraft has this capability.

By the way,I do know my Reason,Presonus and Sony Vegas programs well enough...but that knowledge won't change the fact that I cannot do both audio & video editing in a single DAW successfully.

Perhaps there is no video editing/export functionality in Digital Performer either,but under no circumstances,did I ever plan on buying DP...because regardless of whatever DP's abilities may be,it not worth the expense.

So let me get this straight,according to you,it's okay for Mario to complain about the lackluster printing,MP3 conversion & for him to agree with my disappointment with Sonar's video limitations...but if I express any disappointment at all,it always a result of me spouting unsubstantiated rhetoric..because I don't have sufficient knowledge of anything I own?
So in effect,I am a Sonar basher??Did I condemn Sonar & vow never to use it again?No,I did not.

You may be the reigning,consummate professional of this forum and most certainly a seasoned Cubase user & a top flight vocalist,but you fail to take into account,that as an instrumentalist more than anything else,I have different needs/wants than you do and with your income,you can go directly to the higher end gear/programs to get what you want..with little debate over it.

I think we're all in agreement here,that video editing is best left to video-specific software...however though,at no time,did I ever expect Sonar or any other program,to do everything that Sony Vegas Studio does..but rather,that I was expecting some basic video editing functions.
Sonar has many video formats they support,according to their product sheet..but they don't specify which type of MPEG to use,so naturally,one would think that all MPEG levels would be supported.
It's been my experience,that if a particular format isn't supported,it simple won't appear..but in the case of the MPEG 2,it does show some signs of being imported,but yet,it doesn't work.

Yeah...I have had Sonar for only a few days,but I spent weeks researching and since I've owned it,I've spent several hours with it for a few days and have viewed tutorials on it,but even still,I don't have the right to complain at all?

You don't play live,correct?How would you feel if I busted your chops,as to why you spent $3600 on a hardware keyboard,rather than just using that money to buy a midi controller keyboard and some software?

Yeah...I've spent a lot of money in the past on hardware keyboards,but most of them I got a lot of use out of them...but as I advanced in my recording skills and transitioned to software workstations,hardware(for the most part),became obsolete.

Since you've obviously lead a peerless life of exemplary behaviour & have consistently made the wisest product choices with your extraordinary foresight for what always suited you best,I guess I can't expect any understanding from you,for the masses if at times,need to take risks,in order to determine what gear works for them the most.

I'll admit,that I became too emotional over my integration issues between my Yamaha MOX6 & Cubase AI5...but then,you've never had to contend with either product,so you know very little of what I was dealing with.
I suppose though,that will be something you will always hold over my head.

You are frustrated with me?Well...as it happens,I find your comments frustrating & at this point,I am very irritated with you and I really don't want your help,nor do I want to be chastised for anything I've said in this thread.

In fact,this thread has reached it's conclusion as far as I'm concerned,as I am not going to fence with you over anything,from this point onward.
I have nothing more to say to you,so you go your way & I'll go mine & we'll just ignore one another,so please...keep your opinions to yourself,because I've had my fill of them.

In fact,if I have anything more to discuss with Mario,it will be via e-mail.


-Thom

 

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MarioD
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« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2013, 07:32:59 PM »

Thom, I just got through looking for video in Sonar in my power book and the docs.  You can export video with or without your audio tracks.  You can input video IF you have  the correct codec to do it so maybe you can get the MPEG2 to work with the right codec, don’t know.  This is getting into high tech stuff so be careful.  BUT you can not edit video in Sonar.

The MP3 problems are the same as in previous versions of Sonar; I just tried it for the first time.  You have to purchase the MP3 codec to get it to work. I have Audacity and the free Lame codec and that works great.  You may be able to use Lame in Sonar, don’t know.  I don’t mess with things that are working perfectly!
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The older I get the better I was!
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