Guitar accompaniment using Plectrum tracks

[sciurius]

Hi,

I'm trying to develop a nice guitar style for accompaniment of (pop/country) ballads. For this I use the Plectrum track.
I get reasonable results with this groove:

Code:

SeqClear                        // New Groove
SeqSize 1			// 1 bar in this sequence
Time 4				// 4 beats in a bar
Timesig 4 4                     // time Signature to 4/4

Begin Plectrum-GuitarBallad
    Voice  NylonGuitar
    Volume 80
    MIDIVoice 1 91  80
    MIDIVoice 1 93  80
    Channel 2
    Sequence {
	1.0 +5 100  90  90  90  90  90 ;
	2.0 +10  -  80  80  80  80  80 ;
	2.5 -5   -   -  80  80  80  80 ;
	3.0 +5   -  80  80  80  80   - ;
	3.5 -5   -   -  80  80  80   - ;
	4.0 +5   -  80  80  80  80  80 ;
	4.5 -5   -   -  60  60  60   - ;
    }
End
Begin Plectrum-GuitarBallad1
    Copy   Plectrum-GuitarBallad
    Voice  CleanGuitar
    Capo   8
    Volume 60
End
Begin Bass
    Voice FingeredBass
    Volume 120
    Sequence {
        1 1 1 80 ; 3 1 1 70 ;
    }
End

DefGroove GuitarBallad

But it is still not quite 'it'. Also, it feels like it comes just after the beat, instead of on the beat.

Any suggestions for improvement?

FWIW, I use timitidy++ with the CrisisGM351 sound font.

[bvdp]

The plectrum tracks have an inherent problem: Strings really never turn off (I suppose that's like a real guitar!). So you have to be careful. They turn off when a new pattern is sounded. The whole thing can get a bit ponderous if you are not careful.

I had a quick look and find the following things:

1. You have a midivoice command without a corresponding midiclear.

2. The bass sequence "1 1 1 80" is generating a whole note (ie, the entire bar) on the 1st beat. You might want to try something like "1 4 1 80" to get some "snap".

3. In most cases there is no need to specify a channel. MMA does a good job of finding vacant channels.

4. Rather than use "copy" you are usually better to use "groove".  (See the manual for "Overlay Groove")

5. I think your bass track is too loud. The volume settings are a % ... so you are setting a velocity of "90" to "108". Use the "m", "mf", etc settings. Makes things more clear (I hope).

If you find that the sounds aren't quite lining up to your ears, I'd suggest that when developing the groove you do the following:

1. Take out the midivoice commands. They just muddy things at this point,

2. Add a click track. Something simple like one of the metronome tracks from the standard library should do,

3. Listen with one track at a time.

4. Finally, check the midi output. I'm sure it's right ... but You should find that things are lined up to the beats.

Hope this helps. Please keep us apprised of your progress!

[sciurius]

Thanks for your valuable feedback!

The plectrum tracks have an inherent problem: Strings really never turn off (I suppose that's like a real guitar!).

Yes, this is precisely the effect I'm trying to achieve.

1. You have a midivoice command without a corresponding midiclear.

I've been wondering... Actually, I'd like the chorus and reverb globally, so it feels a bit stupid to turn it on and off for every sequence.

2. The bass sequence "1 1 1 80" is generating a whole note (ie, the entire bar) on the 1st beat. You might want to try something like "1 4 1 80" to get some "snap".

Good point.

3. In most cases there is no need to specify a channel. MMA does a good job of finding vacant channels.

Yes. I did this to get this particular channel first in my midi inspector .

5. I think your bass track is too loud.

Okay.

If you find that the sounds aren't quite lining up to your ears, I'd suggest that when developing the groove you do the following:

...

4. Finally, check the midi output. I'm sure it's right ... but You should find that things are lined up to the beats.

Dumping and inspecting the midi is my primary debugging tools. I use RoseGarden and Midi::Tweaks.

I think the non-lined up feel comes from the strums. Only the first tone of the strum is on the beat, the rest is slightly later. Having a better bass and a metronome or percussion track will probably compensate.

I'm going to experiment, stay tuned.

Please keep us apprised of your progress!

Sure. I think MMA can benefit from a set of good styles, and the Plectrum approach is, AFAIK, unique.

[bvdp]

Dumping and inspecting the midi is my primary debugging tools. I use RoseGarden and Midi::Tweaks.

I think the non-lined up feel comes from the strums. Only the first tone of the strum is on the beat, the rest is slightly later. Having a better bass and a metronome or percussion track will probably compensate.

I'll let you do the math. I can't imagaine MMA being out on it's calculations !! 

Yeah, the plectrum track is a different kettle of fish. Must admit I don't use it too much. Looking forward to the result!

[sciurius]

I'll let you do the math. I can't imagaine MMA being out on it's calculations

Of coure it isn't. But think:

Code:

Sequence {
	1.0 +5 100  90  90  90  90  90 ;
        ... }

This means that the lowest string sounds exactly on the beat. The second string is 5 ticks later, the 3rd 10 ticks, and so on. This may give rise to the feeling that the whole strum itself is slightly late.
Gee, I wish I had a MIDI guitar to analyze how a good sounding strum actually looks like in terms of MIDI events.

[sciurius]

Second attempt. This already 'feels' much better.

Code:

SeqClear                        // New Groove
SeqSize 1			// 1 bar in this sequence
Time 4				// 4 beats in a bar
Timesig 4 4                     // time Signature to 4/4

Begin Plectrum-GuitarBallad
    Voice  NylonGuitar
    Volume 80
    //MIDIVoice 1 91  80
    //MIDIVoice 1 93  80
    Channel 2
    Sequence {
	0.95 +5  90  80  80  80  80  80 ;
	1.9 +10   -  80  80  80  80  80 ;
	2.5  -5   -   -  80  80  80  80 ;
	2.95 +5   -  80  80  80  80   - ;
	3.5  -5   -   -  80  80  80   - ;
	3.95 +5   -  80  80  80  80  80 ;
	4.5  -5   -   -  60  60  60   - ;
    }
End

Begin Plectrum-GuitarBallad1
    Copy Plectrum-GuitarBallad
    Voice  CleanGuitar
    Capo   8
    Volume 60
End

Begin Bass
    Voice AcousticBass
    Sequence {
        1 2 1 80 ;
    }
End

Set TickVolume 0
Begin Drum
    Volume $TickVolume
    Sequence {
       1 0 80 ;
       2 0 80 ;
       3 0 80 ;
       4 0 80 ;
    }
    Tone  HighWoodBlock
End

DefGroove GuitarBallad

[bvdp]

One problem with these tracks (the way mma does it, not you) is that a chord in mma and a real guitar are quite different. Mma selects a note on each string, if at all possible. On a real guitar you'll have skipped strings, skipped notes and duplicates. I think you'll find that the mma chord is more technically correct, but might sound muddy. One other thing you might want to try is to set things up in 2 or 3 tracks and have have 4 string (high) and a bass (use a BASS track). See what it sounds like ... you can have unlimited tracks in mma, so don't worry about that part (you have have to combine mma tracks into a single midi track, but that is what CHANNEL is for).

Yes, it sounds better. Almost reminding me of my boy scout campfire sing-alongs (a very long time ago!).

[sciurius]

Yes, it sounds better. Almost reminding me of my boy scout campfire sing-alongs (a very long time ago!).