Kara-Moon Forum

This is not only my first attempt to try "Dark", it's the first song I've done completely on my own.
I had an idea for a song & decided to record it in Power Tracks.  I used the drum beat as a metronome & liked it, so I kept it in.  Everything else was played on a keyboard ( I'm not a keyboard player...obviously ) except the sax played on Synthophone.  I'm tickled that I even got it to sound like a song!!

I'm not sure about the mix, I've been working so constantly on it I have ear fatigue.

I'd appreciate any criticism.

When the sun recedes behind the mountain
Shadowy arms grow long across the field
They push the light away
And suddenly...
Darkness Falls

Mick

Hi Mick,

Your song as it is now,just sounds like an idea that needs to be worked out.
the timing errors are pretty apparent,not much structure & nothing really seems to blend at this point well.
It's clear to me that you are a seasoned sax player & to be fair,I know all too well how difficult it is to do everything yourself-which is why I rely heavily on quantizing,as I could not achieve what I've done without it.

The thing with my arrangements,is that I have been doing everything on my own using keyboard workstations for the last 17 years and even still,I'll spend alot of time fumbling a solo-because one can obviously not quantize such a piece of music.

Also,half the songs I record are not organic and sound very "machined" by some-which is a fair statement & a very honest one.

I'm speculating that perhaps you are trying too hard on this song & maybe taking a break to decompress and start on it again when you are fresh would produce better results.
I know that for myself,if I am not inspired or if I intially rolled with a idea that excited me,but that I worked too hard on it to try and complete usually did not pan out for me until I woke up the next day and/or gave it a rest for a bit.

I did venture into your website and I listened to the first song "The Nod" and I enjoyed that one very much.I felt that your soloing in that song shined & overall,the song has a really nice hook to it & it was very relaxing.

I thought that The Nod really encompassed the ideas,thoughts & atmosphere that inspired that song. 8)

Elwood

Hi Elwood,
Thanks for posting.  I think you're right.  Just after I uploaded the song, I realized it was much too premature.  I'm really burnt on it.  I had it mixed nicely, at one point, & then screwed it up. 

I'm going to take a break on it & re-try at a later date.

Mick

Mick,

That is cool! Don't mess with it too much, because I think you're almost there.

Those funky little downward steps seem out of character with the rest of the song. If you replace them with some of that sweeping orchestral stuff you used at the end of the song, I think that will put the frost on your pumpkin.

Primo synthophone action, too!

Oren.

Surprising Mick
When you joined here, I've listened to all the songs on your website and 'classified' you as jazz-easy listening artist  ;)
This is a whole new road you take and very interesting, I like it.
You realy should work a bit on this, it has great potential !

Some comments on the song itself :
I agree with the comment of Oren
And I didn't realy hear timing errors as elwood stated, it is lived played
Good melody !

I'm realy looking forward to the final version of this

k

Thanks Oren & Kara!

I'm going to take a day or two off from this, but I have some thoughts.
The "funky downward steps" Oren mentioned (triplets) need to be softened some in the middle of the song.  I bowed them too heavily and I think the ones at the end need to be brought in line with the feel of the song. (eliminated as triplets)

Some of the tremolo strings get muddy. (organ effect)  I'm going to try a different patch.
I also need to get the contrabasses, celli & violas organized better.
I'm trying to mix/blend this as a symphony playing, and the notes I've been reading about string placement don't seem to produce the effect.

I don't hear timing issues either.  I have some heavy anticipations on parts & some hesitations on others, which is what I wanted.  Now if I could just get these guys in their seats & playing their parts right!!!    ::)  LOL

Thanks for taking the time to listen & for your comments.

Mick
P.S.  When I finish it, will it overwrite the mp3 when I upload?

I listened to the song again very intently & it seems to me that the drum bass notes are off slightly.But if two people are saying they don't hear it,then perhaps
my observation is incorrect.I just know that playing drums on a keyboard in real time without quantizing is very tough to pull off,at least for me it is.

The drums are the backbone of a song & if something is a bit off,it's noticable,but again,I am the only one that hears it,so maybe I'm wrong.

Hi Elwood,
The drums are the only thing I didn't do.  The drums were created by Power Tracks. (fill track with drum pattern)  I only had it as a metronome, but decided to keep it.

Thanks for listening again,
Mick

You definitively has to continue to work at this song Mick.
It's a real strong one  8)
I could add just one comment, it's to short, 1min. more would make it perfect.

I hope this isn't your last try at dark....

k

Hi Kara,
Funny you should mention that....
I was working on an idea for a verse with French horns & the like.(on the Synthophone)  I need to find the right sounding horns & see if I can get them to play against each other.

Many of my songs are inspired by what I observe on my "estate".  I, literally, live in the place of the dreams of my 10 year-old self.  I was on the phone, while on my bedroom patio, with Bob Hunt as I watched "darkness fall".  I felt the song right then.

"Above The Treetops" is one I started about the red-tailed hawk that lives here also.  But I could only get 1 verse.  I think it may be considered "dark".

I just love to play.  I wish I had today's technology 40 years ago, but I will enjoy today what my Higher Power has provided me, for the time I have left.

I am honored that some like my music.

Mick

Mick,

I said I like YOU...

OK , you music is cool, too  ;)

Give this pup just a little more attention. I want a finished copy for my collection of best tunes from the "Shadows".

Come through for me, man...

I second the motion.

This is a cool song, Mick..stay on it, man!

Wyatt

I just got round to listening to this one.
Really cool song, man.   The structure is superb, and yes, it needs to be longer.  The sax sound is wonderful. I agree with other comments about progressing this one further.  It has real potential.
 8)
James

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!!!!!

I know I said I needed time away from this, but I can't seem to break free.  I feel addicted.
I spent 4 hours Saturday,14 on Sunday and 3 today.  Here's your extra minute!  ROTFLMAO
There are 6 added tracks of French horns & Dark horns, 2 tracks of oboe ( I have a much greater appreciation of what oboe players do now, they're not easy to play - even in emulation) & 2 of bassoon. (all Patchman patches)

I tried to make this sound like an outdoor concert played in a shell in a valley.

I had TONS of problems, until I hard-wrote the tracks.  PT/computer kept freezing up on me.

Oren,
I tried to re-work the celli, contrabasses & violas to soften them, and Power Tracks won't allow it.  I even tried cutting a measure to re-do and all the other tracks go out of sync.  For now...this is it, but I would like critique to work on at a later date.  I'M FRIED!!!!  :'(

Thanks for all your feedback & encouragement.
Here's the latest.

Mick

Fried, Mick?

I think I'd prefer you scalloped, or maybe roasted with garlic and sage...
(must be hungry :-\)

You've done some cool stuff here, once again! It's a little bit thickly layered in spots, but you can cull when your ears heal up.
If it were my tune, I'd just cut those two little awkward areas out ("cut - use smooth audio cuts - close gap") so the song flows seamlessly without them.

Someday you and I will have a chat about how mood can affect a machine. I've seen it too many times in my own work to discount the phenomenon as coincidence. Bottom line - as you become irritated/confused/overtired/wired-on-adrenaline, your equipment can be fundamentally affected and malfunction or act in bizarre ways.

There, I've said it  ::).

Your favourite whackjob,

Oren.

When you use 'cut' in PT generally you don't want to use the 'glose gap' function, but rather the 'leave gap' method.  Closing the gap literally makes the time during that section disappear for that track, effectively shortening the track, which may be why it was throwing other tracks out of time.
 Use 'close gap' at the end of a track to eliminate time, or at the beginning when mastering to get the song to start right when you hit play, but not in the middle of a song usually..
 I'm going to go listen now..

The drums aren't off at all.
Very good job of orchestrating this out Mick. Very cool.
I am really amazed with this. I can see why it was compelling to keep working!
 You are working the soundsources about as well as you can, I can see how you want a few different effects from instruments a different spots but without real players you get limited to what you have to work with.
 This is a great representation of an orchestra using midi. You done real good.
Thanks for sharing this.

 Just might push me into going back and finishing the symphony type project I almost finished a while back..
Excellent work, keep it up.

oops...yes, of course, if you're going to surgically remove a nasty passage from one track (using "cut - close gap"), all the rest of the tracks have to be cut at that point also, so they line up. It's a bit of an artful maneuver, too, cutting at just those points where the notes on either end will join to make a seamless transition. Tricky...

The "cut" function in PT is not working at all!
The audio & midi remains, whether I use close gap or leave gap.
It says that it cut, but nothing happened whatsoever.

This is puzzling.
It happens on 2 different computers, with 2 different versions of the same song.

??????

Let it ride, man. Have a popsicle, do the polka, put your pants on backwards.

Shut the machines off, paint your toenails, relax.

Then re-load PowerTracks. And relax, Max. :D

I got the answer, over at PG, from manning.
I finally got it to cut using the "bars" window.  1 track at a time so far....
I was cutting 57:1:0 to 57:1:240.  The cut function in the bars window, offers to :239.
So far, I don't know if I was over-taxing the system by try to cut too many tracks, or if it was simply the number.

Toenails are already painted, pants are always on backwards!!!  Popsicle sounds good....

Thanks,
Mick 

You're a lot of fun, Mr. Emery!

I'm not listening to you anymore Oren- I painted my toenails and now I can't get my socks off.. >:(

Socks?????

This track realy goes in the right direction, it love it

k

Hi Kara,
Thanks for the compliment.
I've decided to take some time away from this.  It was getting overwhelming.  I was hearing what was in my head, not what was coming out of the monitors!

I'm going to try re-mixing in a couple of days.

Mick

Cool, Mick..this is a great song..we're rootin' for you!

Wyatt

I've painted my toenails, bought socks, put my pants on backwards, drank MUCH coffee, smoked a couple hundred packs of cigarettes, thrown donuts at my Synthophone, while running around naked in my studio and had the hair reinserted on my head.

I'm done.

When and IF they legalize polygamy, in the U.S., and I can talk my wife into letting me marry a 25 year old blonde that has a PhD in recording/engineering to remix this...I'm going to let it be.

There are 2 versions.  One mastered with Audacity and one mastered in Power Tracks.
Take your pick.  (Sorry Oren, the triplets stayed, but I toned them down some)

Final tally???
11 audio tracks played on "Eugene The Magical Synthophone", merged to 6.
40 midi tracks recorded on my keyboard & turned into 24 audio tracks.

Thanks to everyone here, (especially rharv & Oren) & some of the folks at PG forum.
Thank y'all, very much, for your support.

Mick

I couldn't upload both.
Here's the one done with Audacity.

Mick

Mick,

You did a nice job of wrangling this beauty! Those triplets now come across as a welcome change of pace. I'm impressed!

The Audacity production takes it, over-all. Punchy bottom end; transparent orchestral highs. Very alive. Thanks for the two versions! I have a good feeling about open-source software...you have reinforced that.

Hats off, Mr. E.  8)

I'm simply never get tired of this song, no matter how many times I listen to it.
So beautifill and Miss K. love it too.

I'm with Oren, I prefere the Audacity mix.
I'm using audacity myself since a long time, now trying to make the switch to Powertracks.

And by the way, stop dreaming of the 25 year old phd  ;D

+1 on Audacity version.

Wyatt