I need some new ears on this one

[MarioD]

I’m in very new territory and I would like your help.  Please listen to this and let me know how I’m doing as far as the orchestral sounds and arrangements.
I know there are warts in the lead guitar parts so I’m not concerned about those.  I would like some direction on the other parts though.  Do the strings sound real?  How about the string arrangement?  I’d like to have fresh ears hear this.

Be honest.  Constructive criticism is welcomed.

Thanx - MarioD

[folderol]

Everything sounds fine except the violin. It sounds too thin to be a whole violin section, and lacking in character to be a single voilinist. I wouldn't have a clue about the positioning in the stereo field. Maybe someone else on here knows the typical orchesta layout.

[Wyatt]

I like your intro and the way it develops..nice sound stage and overall excellent production. The transition to gthe guitar works for me.

I'm not an orchestral expert, but that part sounds good to me. Very interesting composition, Mario.



Wyatt

[MarioD]

Thanx Will.  I have a book called Arranging Techniques for Synthesists by Eric Turkel that has the ranges for each instrument as well as an orchestra positioning chart that has help with those areas.  I was wondering about the violin, as although the patch is called violin section I was sure it did sound like one. I will have to work on that line.

Thanx for the input.

[MarioD]

Thanx Wyatt.  I will now leave the transition to the guitar part alone.

Actually I’m thinking about add a couple more movements in this.  This is a work in progress and I’m just trying to verify what I think.  As you know if you work alone to long on a project you can get messed up!

[Wyatt]

  I have a book called Arranging Techniques for Synthesists by Eric Turkel that has the ranges for each instrument as well as an orchestra positioning chart that has help with those areas. 

Interesting..

What you said put me in mind of doing the trumpets for Mariachi Moment, I noticed that it only sounded right within a certain range. Above or below that range, it  *totally*  lost realism. I tried a lot of different things to try to get the tone more robust. In the end, I substituted a trombone for the trumpet, and that did the trick.

(You're guitar playing on that piece is beautiful by the way..)

If you are feeling like the violin is a bit thin, maybe you can insert another instance of it into the mix?  ..that opens a few more possibilities..like offsetting the timing of the two instances by a few ms..or maybe pitching one track a hair lower..or maybe assign a cello to a copy of the violin track and reduce the amplitude on the cello a lot.

Way to dive into the deep end, Mario!   



Wyatt

[Oren]

If you are feeling like the violin is a bit thin, maybe you can insert another instance of it into the mix?  ..that opens a few more possibilities..like offsetting the timing of the two instances by a few ms..or maybe pitching one track a hair lower..or maybe assign a cello to a copy of the violin track and reduce the amplitude on the cello a lot.

Wyatt has the ticket - massage each track with multiple layers, chorus, delay, reverb, detune... whatever it takes to get it the way you think it sounds best, track by track.
It's your friggin' orchestra, man - take charge!

[elwoodblues1969]

Mario,

I like the gradual progression of layers & the tension that it brings-which is to say that I like the idea of this song,but it's replete with problems.
In the intro starting at 0:10,there are a lot of sour notes(particularly the violin layer melody),which clashes pretty hard with the rest of it,as well as there being other areas were sour notes are present,later in the intro.
I like the guitar work,but the segment where you wig out with the Eddie Van Halen riff does not fit(at least not this early in the song),in my opinion.
As for the string sounds...well,the way in which they were played is a real enough in execution,but I don't think that any of the string instruments of your software are usable,as they sound like Mellotron sounds.
Have you considered upgrading your VST's?

I know my input is pretty brutal-but you wanted honesty,so you got it and I hope it may be of some help to you.
I think that you branching out into uncharted territory is commendable & I admire the size of your stones,my friend!

-Thom

[MarioD]

Thanx Thom for your honest appraisal.

I’ll check on those sour notes.  I didn’t hear them but I’ll check.  I have a couple of things I must get down ASAP so it will be a few days before I can get back to this.

I agree about the guitar riff. I’m hoping to add a few more segments so this may not be the first one.  I was in a big hurry so I just jammed the guitar part.

The string sounds are coming from the stock Kontakt 3.5 sounds.  What you are referring to may be similar to what Will is hearing.  I’m trying to make these sound more organic. I’m going to try some of Wyatt’s ideas to try and thicken them up.  I am in fact looking to purchases some better sounding orchestra sounds, probably Kirt Hunter’s or Garrison’s stuff, but just adding better sounding strings will not make the parts sound better if I don’t get a handle on how to make them work.  I really don’t want to spend a ton of money on samples if I can’t get them to work. 

Thanx again.

[elwoodblues1969]

Mario,

I hear what your saying about learning the technique & the implementation of effects and I agree that's important,but on the other side of the coin,technique & effects will not fully compensate for mediocre samples or synth-engine based strings(which is what your string instruments sound like).
There really is no substitute for a authentic acoustic samples such as piano, strings & guitars and technique & effects will not mask synthetic acoustic instruments....trust me,my experience with keyboard sounds go back 20+ years.
Bottom line is....get your technique down,become proficient with effects a-n-d upgrade your VST's as well,if you really want the authenticity.
I don't know that much about software instruments and the companies that make them-so I cannot really recommend a good set of stringed instruments,as I am only familiar with Reason 4,but I do know there are a vast amount of choices out there and of course,software is amazingly cheaper to buy than hardware,so you should not have too hard of a time upgrading.
If you do decide to upgrade,a good person to consult with,is Marc.

-Thom

[kara]

OK, you can discuss a lot about sounds and spend a lot of money to get what you want....
But the essence is still the song
And this IS a great song ! Propably one of the best you made Mario. Can't wait to hear the full version of it

k

[MarioD]

Thanx Kara,

I slowly working on the final version.