Kara-Moon Forum

As many of you may know, I do not use "anti-virus" software. And even when I worked in Windows (XP Pro and ME) I didn't use it - except for approximately 4 months when evaluating the various offerings from Norton, McAfee, Avast... etc. Not once in over 4 years with windows ME or XP did I experience problems attributable to malicious code. Several virus detection programs identified threats, but no two programs agreed on which ones I had. When deployed, a virus destroy program would do its work, report all threats gone - but then another program would report a whole new set of threats - just minutes after the computer had been completely "cleaned", and with no exposure to the web.

Try this for fun someday: Install a fresh version of windows from optical disc, stay off-line, then introduce some virus detection software programs. See how many "threats" they manage to conjure up... ::)

Are you really concerned, and is there some computer expert you know who asserts they "know" malicious code to be a serious threat? Try this: ask them to send you a disc containing copies of 10 recognized viruses. Then introduce them into an old computer running an unprotected version of Windows, one at a time - and see what happens. (Chances are this expert will be unable to provide you with even ONE confirmed example of a virus, let alone 10... ;))

The advice from many experienced computer users: Anti-virus software is unnecessary, and impedes the performance of your existing system. Simply learn to keep your computer "clean", and conduct yourself wisely on the internet.

So here is a list of veteran computer enthusiasts who avoid anti-virus software - and their reasons...

"Mike" on Exodus Development - http://exodusdev.com/blog/mike/living-dangerously-no-anti-virus-or-firewall

Bob Rankin and Patrick Crispen - http://internettourbus.com/vp101.htm

Matthew DeCarlo - http://www.techspot.com/guides/202-stay-safe-without-active-antivirus-protection/
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Anti-virus software actually fits the definition of a virus - you invite it on to your computer, and it causes havoc. - http://arstechnica.com/software/news/2010/04/problems-caused-by-anti-virus-software-not-going-away.ars
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Why it can be more challenging to protect a  Microsoft operating system than one from MacIntosh or Linux: -     http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_windows_so_prone_to_virus_attacks

...more to come as time permits...

The most effective way to work safely on the web is with an open-source (Linux) operating system. The closed-source MacIntosh O/S is also based on the Unix concept, and is far less susceptible to malicious code than Windows.

If for some reason you feel you must use Microsoft software, there are several excellent tools developed and maintained by the open-source community to help protect an inherently vulnerable operating system like Windows.

Your most obvious first choice would be the Firefox web browser. Put some solid user-developed software between Windows and the web.
Next is a list of open-source software that will help protect, and even rescue, your Microsoft O/S:

http://www.clamwin.com/

http://www.truecrypt.org/hiddenvolume

http://www.clonezilla.org/

http://ping.windowsdream.com/

http://www.partimage.org/Main_Page

...and a firewall developed and maintained by a private company, in co-operation with the open-source community...
http://www.agnitum.com/products/outpostfree/index.php

Just a little add-on for those using Linux...
Evince, multi-format document viewer, that unlike Adobe does not run executable code hidden in PDFs.

Extra security for those of us who prefer to "be in the driver's seat" ... Thanks, Will 8)

http://projects.gnome.org/evince/

Right you are. But, fan of all this as I am, I do have to add that certain PDFs will take forever (if ever) to print with Evince.

My telephone provider (Telus) sends me an E-bill which just doesn't print (or takes about 1 hour per page, and I'm not exaggerating), however using acroread it prints instantly. I have no idea why, but if you are printing using Evince and have problems you might want to try a product from adobe :)

Desperate tactics for desperate situations...?! ;D

Very strange. I've not seen this problem myself, but then I very rarely print PDFs ::)

...and here is a brief description of another veteran Microsoft user's strategy to work safely without invasive anti-virus programs... 8)
(it can be found at: http://forum.notebookreview.com/security-anti-virus-software/515841-running-windows-without-anti-virus-software-6.html

"Well, I am running my NT-based computers for years without "security software".

My strategy is:
Never ever do your work with a privileged account.
Avoid IE6.
Make sure your system and software has latest patches installed.
Disable autorun.
Avoid Adobe Reader and use Flash only if necessary.

Occasionally, I scan the systems with a live CD, and up to now the systems looked clean.

At the moment I am using Firefox together with Adblock+ (many malware comes with hijacked ad servers, so you are absolutely not safe if you only surf on MSN, Yahoo or the NYT. Pr0n sites are sometimes safer ) and Flashblock plugins. Also I am using Opera with "plugins" disabled, Javascript disabled with some sites whitelisted.

And I am experimenting with Software Restriction Policies. Together with restricted user accounts, any malware will be prevented from being executed in case your klicky finger was too nervous"

...and from the same site...
"I've been doing this for a little over a year.
No sign of viruses ever."

I used the "Clamwin" link and downloaded the Uniblue registry clean up software and supposedly,I have 322 registry errors and they want $30!! >:(
How do I know if I do in fact,have 322 errors! >:( The only reason I decided to give this a go,is some Nigerian,or some camel-f**king **shole has implemented some sort of spyware that has infected my e-mail accounts and is sending me spam from my AOL account,to my Yahoo account.....as well as sending out spam to all of my friends,including Mario.

Mario then e-mailed me telling me that there is a possible virus going around,so I ran a Windows scan & nothing came up.To make matters worse,ever since I ran the Windows scan,my A-Vast! program stopped working & I can't fix it,so I uninstalled it.

As things are now-apart from running Firefox,I am surfing the internet naked,& that's not good and surfing the internet using common sense & reason alone,is not going to keep me safe....so wtf do I do?What are my options?
Spend thousands that I don't have to buy a f**king MacIntosh or use a Linux system so that I have no choice but to give up all of my audio programs that I absolutely love,just because their not compatible?
How about if I just slit my own throat while I'm at it?Might as well,since I'll have to discard just about everything I use in my studio,just to avoid viruses.
You know.....this conspiracy theory about these Anti-virus programs being nothing but bulldust,is making my d**k itch. >:( Sometimes viruses are sitting in some very unlikely places on the internet,so doing some "smart" internet surfing,just doesn't cut it.

Prime example; a savvy PC user friend of mine a couple of years back,absolutely sweared by AVG ant-virus,so I used this program in conjunction with Mozilla Firefox for several months without a problem.
Then wouldn't you know it,I decided to cast a vote for Will in the contest he was involved in over there in KVR,& all f**king hell broke loose and why?Because I listened to various contest songs via the audio hosting sites that the KVR users used & I was infected right then & there. >:(

Nice little arrangement KVR has....they allow these links to these dubious audio hosting sites on their website,because not only does it spare them the expense of the extra bandwidth of on site hosting,but their also exempt of any responsibility when a virus destroys someone's computer. >:(
K-M is a minuscule little blip on the internet compared to KVR,but K-M seems to have no problem doing on site audio hosting....KVR is just another bloodless,money grubbing corporation,which is why I will NEVER have anything to do with that website ever again.

Case in point,is that anyone can be blindsided by a virus at some point and since I've run A-Vast,I have never had a virus issue.

As for e-mail-related viruses...well...those are easy to side step,as they can always be identified by the user.

Maybe I have no choice but to spend the $30 on a registry cleaner,as I may have to resort to using it,but I am NOT giving up A-Vast,because it's FREE.

If I can disable my Windows security,I should be able to re-install my A-Vast with no hitches.


-Thom  

Well, first of all, I'm glad that our censored words filter works well here.....  ::)

A couple of simple answers :


No, that's like changing your car because the lights don't work anymore...


That's because we do our own file hosting. KVR doesn't do any file hosting they allow external links, which means that you don't know to what site you go when you click on a audio link.
Having said this, the change of getting a virus by just streaming a link, if the link really points to an audio file is extremely small.



Try this before you buy something : http://www.eusing.com/free_registry_cleaner/registry_cleaner.htm
On a side note : A registry cleaner does not delete viruses, it cleans up the registry, so not sure that a registry cleanup will solve your problem.

Try this before : http://www.bitdefender.com/scanner/online/free.html , it is save. At least you'll know if you have a virus or the problem is something else.

k
 

You can also download the free Microsoft Security Essentials, which as I've heard have a good reputation and seem to run without any problems on my DAW. If you encounter any problems when using critical applications like a DAW, most virus scanners allow you to disable their version of 'real time detection' which scans every file that is openened and which can sometimes problems. But I'm always glad to have such a real time scanner open when browsing. I should also repeat a warning for the autorun feature, which was already mentioned a few posts ago. The autorun is a very easy way for viruses to spread as they can be triggered automatically just by inserting a usb drive into a computer which has the autorun on. This is why a realtime scanner is VERY important (and/or disabling the autorun).

I should add that any system can be hacked, any system can be screwed up by choosing the wrong option or allowing the wrong program to do strange stuff to your settings.

Thom,

This is an excellent opportunity for me to do some further research and address your concerns individually.

The windows pre-fetch registry is one of those big snags in Microsoft operating systems that, version after version, they refuse to remedy. They don't even have the decency to offer a free Microsoft registry cleaner so that a loyal customer can clean up their mess periodically.
So, it's up to third party developers to come up with tools to correct the errors which will slow down your operating system. (MacIntosh and Linux do not need a pre-fetch registry - they operate very efficiently without it)

Fortunately, the open-source (Linux) community makes some dandies, (in addition to the one Kara recommended) and they are free for you to use...

http://sourceforge.net/projects/littlecleaner/

In my experience - if you have a Windows problem, check Sourcforge.net first for reliable solutions.
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I'll continue to go through your concerns, one post at a time, to show you how to tame that Microsoft beast, mi amigo... :-*

Of course, they don't have a registry  ;D

k

I apologize for my outburst,but actually,whenever uncensored,profane words are posted,the filter replaces the entire word with all asterisks.As you can see from my initial post,there are letters in the beginning & end of the words & the middle of those words have asterisks that I put there.
As bad as my temper gets sometimes,I still have enough sense to edit my own posts.Up until 7 years ago,I never had a computer and I never wanted one.
I used WebTV for the internet(for those who don't know,it's an internet terminal box that you hook up to your television set to access the internet),because I didn't want to have any of the problems I have now.
For those of us who are musicians who only have computers because we absolutely need them for musical purposes,PC's are very frustrating,because we're not computer geeks(I wish I was a PC geek though,but with an IQ of only 100,I don't have the aptitude for advanced computer learning).

That's because we do our own file hosting. KVR doesn't do any file hosting they allow external links, which means that you don't know to what site you go when you click on a audio link.
Having said this, the change of getting a virus by just streaming a link, if the link really points to an audio file is extremely small.
I'm well aware that you do your own file hosting & on-site file hosting costs money & that's my whole point....KVR pulls in a lot more green than this website I'm sure,but KVR isn't willing to do their own file hosting,despite the fact that KVR could easily afford it.



Try this before you buy something : http://www.eusing.com/free_registry_cleaner/registry_cleaner.htm
On a side note : A registry cleaner does not delete viruses, it cleans up the registry, so not sure that a registry cleanup will solve your problem.

Try this before : http://www.bitdefender.com/scanner/online/free.html , it is save. At least you'll know if you have a virus or the problem is something else.

k
  
[/quote]
Thanks very much for the links Rony,I'll check them out.


-Thom

Kara,

I just now ran the Eusing registry cleaner & unlike the Uniblue cleaner,this one is telling me that I have 587 errors,as supposed to the 322 errors.

I'll now try the bit defender thing....

Kara,

I installed the Bit Defender as a Mozilla Firefox add on,but apart from that,I don't know what else to do.I'm going to try Oren's suggestions now.......

Well...with this "Little Cleaner" program,it is telling me that I have 548 errors,but at least this program works(with the exception of 4 errors that were unable to be fixed,for some reason...)


Thanks Oren. 8)

I have heard that real time protection is better,but there is a fee & thus far,my A-Vast has done right by me(which by the way,is up & running again with no problems).

Thanks Marc

Nice going, hoser!
(Don't be too concerned about varying results in the number of errors detected, or errors that are determined to be non-repairable. Windows has so many unresolved quirks that it is difficult for third party software to accurately assess the damage.)

Good to hear it's sorted.
Hmmm, is there anything the KM crowd-source can't do? ;)

Thom, forget those free register scans.  They will report many problems only to try to sell you something.  The free Ccleaner has a very good register cleaner IF you need or want one.

I would try the Security Tango, http://securitytango.com/, first.  Be Sure to follow the instructions exactly as they are written. These are all free products and whenever I have had to use it on other’s computers I have had a 100% success rate.  After you have cleaned your computer I would DL and use Microsoft Security Essentials, http://www.microsoft.com/security_essentials/
And the free version of Malwarebytes’ anti-Malware, http://www.malwarebytes.org/mbam.php

MS Essentials is always running, however I double check with the Anti-Malware once a month.  So far the Anti-Malware has found nothing, indicating that Essentials is catching everything.

After you are free of all bugs I strongly suggest you get an image-backing program, I use Acronis, and an external HD.  If you back up your computer frequently with an image-backing program and you do get a bad virus you will be back up and running in a couple of hours.

Good luck and I hope this helps - MarioD

Mario,

Can you be more specific about which free registry cleaners I should avoid?Are you referring to the ones that Kara & Oren mentioned?The one that you mentioned is free,so what's the difference?
The one Oren mentioned seemed to work when I ran it.It seems that all of these companies have both free and paid versions.
As for the anti-virus issue,well...my A-Vast program crashed again this morning....so I had no choice but to try a Microsoft product,so I downloaded Security Essentials with much apprehension. :-\
Despite the good recommendations I received here,I still can't place my implicit trust in Microsoft,especially since Microsoft have never given away any software program for free that actually works correctly.
I won't believe this program for myself until I've had a successful trial run myself,so I will keep my fingers crossed.I am utterly shocked that Microsoft would actually offer a real time anti-virus program for free....huh??? :o

The only sense I can make out of all this,is that all of these other free versions of anti-virus programs have put pressure on Microsoft,forcing them to curb their enormous greedy nature & actually care for their customers for once.

By the way,I finally got Malwarebytes to successfully run on my PC without it being blocked & when I ran a scan,I had 17 adware infections,that have since been eliminated. :-

Who ever thought Microsoft would come through for it's customers?...wonders never cease.I have to ask,how in the heck did you & Marc find Security Essentials and what gave you guys the faith to try it?

My profound thanks to you & everyone else for saving my hide through this ordeal,as if it wasn't for the folks here at K-M,I would have never been capable of stepping up to the PC audio production world! :;


-Thom

Thom, I was using AVG anti-virus for quite a while, however it became a real resource hog.  I read many good things about Essentials so I tried it on my small notebook first because like you I had no faith in MS producing a quality free anything. After a successful trial on the notebook, note that I tried to infect it by going to some risky site but Essentials caught everything, I put it on my internet computer.  I have since installed it on my family’s computers as well as on many of my friends.  Thus far no complaints.

I have used a few registry cleaners in the past but I’ve only used Ccleaner for the last 3-5 years or so.  I’m not up to date on any others.  I have heard that you should not use a lot of different registry cleaners on the same machine as they all can take out different things.  I have also heard you should not use any registry cleaners. I chose Ccleaner because it is easy to set up and the fact I use it to clean out all of my temp files.  You can view the files that will be deleted and pick and chose which you want to delete.  You can also make a backup of your registry within the program, actually it asks you if you want to do a backup prior to cleaning. I always carefully look to see what is going to be deleted and most of the time it is crap that is left off of a program delete or web site.

I hope this helps

Here is some advice from a veteran Windows user and programmer from France (http://superuser.com/users/9872/altherac) ( - http://www.altherac.fr/ - ) :

"The most-efficient replacement to an anti-virus is to use a Windows account without administrative privileges on a daily basis. Most malware can't and won't work properly if they have a restricted access to system files and the registry.

I've been using Windows for years with no anti-virus software and I haven't been harmed. Theses are the rules I recommend:

    * Use a limited user account on Windows daily
    * Use a separate administrative account for software installs and maintenance
    * If you don't want to use a separate account, try tools like DropMyRights or suDown
    * Keep your OS up-to-date
    * Keep your browser up-to-date
    * Keep your browser plugins up-to-date (Flash is regularly a malware vector due to security holes)
    * Restrict JavaScript and ads on your browser with tools like NoScript and Adblock
    * Act responsibly: avoid dubious sites, executable attachments and other common malware sources"