Nine Million Bicyles

[bvdp]

I'm posting this to get some feedback on my recording skills (well, lack there of).

I did this with a MMA generated background track. I played it though my Casio WK3000 and recorded it into Audacity.

The sax track is recorded straight into Audacity as well though a small mixer (to give the mic a bit of gain) and a usb interface.

I've used my new microphone (ribbon) on the sax. I think I'm pleased with it, considering the price ... who cares:

   http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LASBRG/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

After recording the sax I applied a bit of compression and a bit of reverb. That's it. No fading, no track mixing, etc.

[SLD Music]

bvdp,

Nice playing!  In terms of the sound, this is kind of a tricky call...  The sax sounds okay.  It's balanced in terms of dynamics (not too much jarring loud and soft going on, which can be an issue with recording sax).    I COULD tell you that I think the sax is a little dull sounding, meaning maybe it could use a little EQ boost up in the 4,000-7,000k range, maybe--to bring out its... character.  How did you place the mic to record it?  

The thing is though, that the rest of the mix and instrumentation just doesn't do justice to the beauty of having a live sax recording.  The sax sticks out as the best thing about this recording as is, and unfortunately sort of draws attention to the relatively unexpressive sounds that accompany it.  If you bring out some of the sparkle of the sax, you might further exagerate that separation, and it might make the mix sound worse.  I don't know for sure.

In terms of the recording itself though, I think it sounds pretty good--sort of retro in a way--like it's on tape (because it's missing the highs).  A little EQ to enhance some of those beautiful imperfections in the tone would do wonders, and MAYBE a little more reverb to mask the sound of the room where you recorded it, which is a bit... slap-backy in all the wrong ways, and makes the sax sound like it's in a different space than the rest of the instruments.  But what would really make a difference is a better backing track.  Not that you asked about that.

But really... what do I know?  Ignore my comments as you see fit.    Again, really nice playing!

[Oren]

Nice playing!

When I hear a saxophone wielded with this skill, audio quality takes a back seat to the enjoyment of a difficult instrument well-played.
I'm thinking the dry recording with your AKG mic catching the bounce from the corner of your room is at least the equal of this ribbon mic recording. Maybe better.
In terms of this production, Scott may be right. Try removing the reverb entirely from your sax, and see if it blends more naturally with the backing tracks...

[folderol]

Difficult one this.

I really like the sax, but agree that it stands out against the rest. Personally, I think you've used too many MMA tracks for this piece, which 'stiffens' the music. I've heard nice MMA and BIAB tracks before but the are usually in the more pop orientated  styles rather than laid-back expressive ones.

[bvdp]

Thanks everyone for the comments!!!!

Before I forget, in case you don't know this is a song that Katie Meldua did a year or so ago. I just don't want anyone thinking it's my song

As to the sax ... I'm glad you guys are liking this. That's my major passion these days and I have spent more than a few hours getting my fingers and mouth to work in sync with my brain

I find it odd that Scott and Oren both suggest adding bit of high to the sax. I would subtract more I'm sure you are right. It just emphases how hard it is to mix your own stuff (well, for me!).

Also, I think I'll leave the sax alone after recording it. I think the added reverb is unnecessary. Not sure about the compression? If I get it to mix with the background it might be best just to leave it.

As to the background track ... well, it's not the best. I spent some time on this just now and think my original choices of instrumentation are a big problem. Makes it sound pretty "tinny".

Anyway, I guess I'm on the right path. I'll work on this a bit more and put a new version up in a day or so.

[elwoodblues1969]

Bob,

It's nice to see you delving into a project such as this,as the only music I can remember you posting,was a live recording of a piano performance some years back.

Not really sure what happened between :12 & :16 ..but the bitterness of the reed lead made me wince,something fierce.I have nothing against Casio's-as I've had a few over the years,but with no effects to those Casio instruments applied,they're not doing any justice at all to your sax track.

As it's been stated here in this thread,your sax performance is ace,but it is indeed,very dull sounding.Impressive microphone you have there,but without an interface of equal quality with some capable pre-amps,I'm afraid it's killing off the brilliance of your saxophone and having a professional microphone is not going to compensate for a lackluster mixer & interface(of course,I don't know what brands you're using,but judging by this recording,I would say that they are at the entry level).

I'd like to suggest you bypass your mixer and upgrade to a better USB audio interface.I had a lot of difficulty with my vocal recordings-with all of my past gear...that is,until I decided to make a more sound investment into a interface of substantially better quality.

I had bought a Presonus AudioBox 44VSL and it dramatically improved my vocal tracks(without the need for effects).This interface has 4 audio inputs,so a mixer is not necessary and for $300,it's a hell of a bargain.

Also...as another suggestion,I would forget about recording in Audacity(to make things easier) and just download a free copy of Ignite.
Ignite has all of the instrumentation & effects you would need to polish your recordings and it even has some auto accompaniments that you may find useful.

I hope my input will be of some help to you and keep up the good sax action!

[bvdp]

Bob,

It's nice to see you delving into a project such as this,as the only music I can remember you posting,was a live recording of a piano performance some years back.

Well, I do play with pianos. But, I never play one Hope you're not confusing me with someone else.

Not really sure what happened between :12 & :16 ..but the bitterness of the reed lead made me wince,something fierce.I have nothing against Casio's-as I've had a few over the years,but with no effects to those Casio instruments applied,they're not doing any justice at all to your sax track.

It's supposed to sound "oriental". But, I agree ... it grates. I have toned this down in the next version.

As it's been stated here in this thread,your sax performance is ace,but it is indeed,very dull sounding.Impressive microphone you have there,but without an interface of equal quality with some capable pre-amps,I'm afraid it's killing off the brilliance of your saxophone and having a professional microphone is not going to compensate for a lackluster mixer & interface(of course,I don't know what brands you're using,but judging by this recording,I would say that they are at the entry level).

I'm loath to spend yet more money on a non-paying hobby. But, you are right ... the current gear is cheap crap and not a lot of fun.

I have ordered a better interface. PreSonus AudioBox USB 2x2. 2 inputs are plenty for me since I don't have any friends to play with I'm sure that built in pre-amps will make a huge difference.

Oh, the mic is not stellar either. Just a sub $100 wanna-be. But, it appears to sound fine. I like the retro sound.

Also...as another suggestion,I would forget about recording in Audacity(to make things easier) and just download a free copy of Ignite.
Ignite has all of the instrumentation & effects you would need to polish your recordings and it even has some auto accompaniments that you may find useful.

I'll let Oren chime in on this one. But, I find that audacity works just fine for my little projects. And, since Ignite doesn't come in a linux version, I'll bypass that one

I hope my input will be of some help to you and keep up the good sax action!

Yes, very much appreciated!

[SLD Music]

I must reiterate that I'm really not sure about how I would treat the sax in terms of EQ, etc. I would have to experiment with it myself.  I just gave thoughts about what I would TRY. 

And as a sort of counterpoint to Thom's thoughts, my experience with recording gear, in terms of what gear makes the biggest impact to the least impact on the quality of your recordings, in order, is as follows:

1.) Your brain! (aka your expertise--performance, mic placement, setting pre-amps properly, performance technique, your ear for EQ and compression, and having a clear vision for the end result, etc.)  Unfortunately you can't really buy this particular piece of gear...  It's more of a do-it-yourself kinda deal.
2.) Microphone  (If you spend good money on anything, spend it on the microphone.)
3.) Mic pre-amps.  Yes... good ones are nice, but seriously if you already have something that works and provides phantom power, the microphone you choose and how you record with it will have a MUCH larger impact on the recording than the pre-amps.  Spend your money on the microphone and see item #1.
5.) Effects and processing gear / plug ins.  Yes, there's a difference between plug-ins, but as long as you have some that work and do the basic job (EQ and compression are, at their heart, simple-stupid things to do), the operator's skill is FAR more impactful than the gear.  See item #1.
6.) DAW -- This is all about what you're comfortable with.  If you like Audacity, why change?  Another DAW is not going to make your stuff SOUND better by itself.  Only you can do that.    See item #1.

The point I'm making, and I'm sure you've already adopted this philosphy.  It's not the gear you have, it's what you do with it that counts.  Now that you've got that PreSonus 2x2 (a fine and sensible choice), if it were me, I would save my money for the best microphone I could reasonably afford.  Again... just one guy's thoughts.  Ignore as you see fit. 

Again, your sax playing is outstanding.

[bvdp]

I must reiterate that I'm really not sure about how I would treat the sax in terms of EQ, etc. I would have to experiment with it myself.  I just gave thoughts about what I would TRY. 

1.) Your brain! (aka your expertise--performance, mic placement, setting pre-amps properly, performance technique, your ear for EQ and compression, and having a clear vision for the end result, etc.)  Unfortunately you can't really buy this particular piece of gear...  It's more of a do-it-yourself kinda deal.

Yeah, I agree completely. Discovered this about 50 years ago ... the good musicians seem to make wonderful music on crap ... and then there are the rest of us

The point I'm making, and I'm sure you've already adopted this philosphy.  It's not the gear you have, it's what you do with it that counts.  Now that you've got that PreSonus 2x2 (a fine and sensible choice), if it were me, I would save my money for the best microphone I could reasonably afford.  Again... just one guy's thoughts.  Ignore as you see fit. 

The main reason for the interface is that it will clean up a lot of clutter on my desk. And, I do think that the built in mic amps will make a difference. Well, a small difference.

Honestly, I'm wondering if at 63 I can hear the difference anyways?

Again, your sax playing is outstanding.

Again, I thank you for this!!!!

[Oren]

Yes, although Audacity will perform most advantageously for an old-school "command line" programmer like Bob, it will do the digital audio deed to very high standards. Also, it makes very efficient use of your computer, so there is no convenience-oriented automation and very little "eye candy" - it can appear very low-featured to the casual observer.

I use an old Shure SM58 (actually, a PE56D purchased new in 1981) for all my recording, with the pre-amps that are included in my Digitech guitar processors. The old Shure mics have always rendered excellent results, even for a  concert hall recording of classical piano and voice.

[Moon]

I agree with most of what has been said: the sax sounds wonderfull and musical.
The rest.... ooooops.... definetly not in the same class...
I thing the accompagnement is OK, but the sounds are way to cheesy and artificial.
Someone should record the midi file through a Yamaha Motif or equivalent with some carefully effect processing and EQ's.
Should do  justice to both the sax recording and the midi file.

Moon

[bvdp]

Yes, although Audacity will perform most advantageously for an old-school "command line" programmer like Bob,

Hey, who you calling old

[bvdp]

I agree with most of what has been said: the sax sounds wonderfull and musical.
The rest.... ooooops.... definetly not in the same class...
I thing the accompagnement is OK, but the sounds are way to cheesy and artificial.
Someone should record the midi file through a Yamaha Motif or equivalent with some carefully effect processing and EQ's.
Should do  justice to both the sax recording and the midi file.

Moon

Nice to see you active here, Mr. Moon!

After being nicely admonished for cheesy sounds I think I have mending my ways. I actually made some deliberate choices on the sounds in the accomp. ... and, yes, they were the wrong ones. I've redone the midi and I think it sounds much better now. I'll but up a new version, probably next week.

Thanks.

[bvdp]

Okay, please listen to this remake.

I've redone the background with better voicing. Yes, the 1st was too cheesy. And, really, not a good indicator of what MMA can do. BTW, the background was totally mixed in mma. I did nothing in the edit phase.

The sax track is recorded with my new ribbon and the Presonus USB interface. This all seems to be working nicely.

I added a bit of EQ to the sax track: cut under 20k and boosted the highs a very little bit. Sax was then compressed slightly, and then had a bit of reverb applied (a lot seems to go a long way!).

So, give a listen and tell me what I'm still not understanding!

Thanks.

[Oren]

Bingo!