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Author Topic: Sound card and firewire.  (Read 12770 times)
Fred S
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« on: February 02, 2008, 03:09:13 AM »

So what the heck is firewire. The word sounds pretty fast...firewire Shocked  Is it something to have? Faster than USB? And should I be using that or USBs for my controllers. Or straight midi's. Maybe get a midi-sport. I notice the midi sport hooks up through the PC's USB, but all the connections are for your midi controllers. Does that slow stuff down on the way to the computer (latency issues?).

I'll need another sound card as well. So, I'd probably just get another M-Audio 2496 as its been very steady/reliable. Or what's the not so expensive hot setup?

Your probably thinking "good luck, Fred". Yeah, your right, I'm clueless Cheesy
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kara
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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2008, 08:21:42 AM »


FireWire (based on technology originally developed by Apple), was adopted in 1995 as an official industry standard (IEEE 1394).  This original version of FireWire is a high-speed, hot-swappable peripheral interface that supports data transfer rates of up to 400 Mbit/sec. 
Now FireWire 800 (IEEE 1394b), the next generation of FireWire technology, doubles the throughput of the original FireWire interface to 800 Mbit/sec and dramatically increases the maximum distance of FireWire connections! 
Dramatic Increase in Distance
Not only is FireWire 800 twice as fast as before, but it can be used over much longer
distances.  FireWire 800 (IEEE 1394b) allows the use of various types of cabling, each offering different speed/distance capabilities.  A FireWire 800 cable will connect devices up to 15 feet away, while a FireWire 800 optical repeater will connect devices up to 1000 meters (3300 feet) away!

Compatibility with Current FireWire Products
FireWire 800 provides two modes of transmission:

The pure beta mode (a FireWire 800 device connected to a FireWire 800 port with a FireWire 800 beta cable)
The backward-compatible legacy mode (a FireWire 400 device connected to a FireWire 800 port or vice versa with a FireWire 800/FireWire 400 bilingual cable)
FireWire 400 devices use a 6-pin or 4-pin connector while FireWire 800 devices use a 9-pin
connector.  Existing FireWire 400 devices can be plugged into either type of port with the appropriate cable.  FireWire 800 devices can achieve FireWire 800 speeds only when connected to a FireWire 800 port.

Architecture - FireWire vs. USB 2.0
   FireWire, built from the ground up for speed, uses a "Peer-to-Peer" architecture in which the peripherals are intelligent and can negotiate bus conflicts to determine which device can best control a data transfer
USB 2.0 uses a "Master-Slave" architecture in which the computer handles all arbitration functions and dictates data flow to, from and between the attached peripherals (adding additional system overhead and resulting in slower, less-efficient data flow control)

To answer your question, yes it faster then USB2.0, despite the fact that USB 2.0 is a 480 Mbps interface and FireWire is a 400 Mbps interface.
The throughput numbers would lead you to believe that USB 2.0 provides better performance.  But, differences in the architecture of the two interfaces have a huge impact on the actual sustained "real world" throughput

 
So, do you need it ?
Depends... if you are building a new daw and you would need it only for audio, i would say no, get a good internal audio card, like the EMU0404 and you will have anything you'll need.
But if you're allso interested in video, yes you'll need it, most modern video-cams now come with a firewire 2 interface.

You can read a more detailed technical article about firewire here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewire

k


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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2008, 09:42:37 AM »

Very interesting Kara
accidentally I did the right thing, infact I own a 0404 card and it's working great for my small needs, while my sister (and his husband) aren't even interested in music but I help them to install firewire cards and they happily use them to transfer video stuff, they make educational videos
Very good

Cheers
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Fred S
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2008, 06:47:21 PM »

Ok, I got it now. Thanks, Rony!  EMU 0404?  I'll look into that.
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Martin E
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2008, 07:22:21 PM »

I've been looking at another soundcard option as well. I've had an M-audio 2496  for a few years but now I'm not really convinced anymore that it has best audio quality possible. Ok, you can get some very expensive cards, I know. Before the M-audio 2496 card however I had a card from Echoaudio which is a small company. And looking back I think I liked the sound of that card better. Only problem at the time was it didn't fit in the slots of my new computer and I had to find a replacement which eventually lead me to the M-audio card. So recently I've been looking at these firewire options from echoaudio

Have a look here:

http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire2/audiofire2_both_big.jpg

or this one:

http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire4/audiofire4_both_big.jpg

More information at

http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/index.php
« Last Edit: February 02, 2008, 07:24:24 PM by Martin E » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2008, 07:55:17 PM »

There are many good options available. In my main setup I'm using a Yamaha 01X combined with the i88x. This is giving me very good results. But... the best card I have owned so far is my EMU 1820m which is incredible value for money.  Unfortunatly, their solutions are limited to using one EMU device at the time, so if you want setup of 16 lines in, you need to look elsewhere (or go with an adat solution...) Hey, this is giving me an idea... cause I thought you could use the i88x as an adat device. Better check this out...

Moon
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Fred S
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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2008, 09:35:51 PM »

@Martin..I've used that 2496 for quite a while without any problems. Its been rock solid. But your right, I want something better if I can find it reasonable. Those echo's look good, but I'd like some extra features. I'm looking at this one now...see below.


@Moon, Thanks! Its good to hear your were happy with your E-MU as I'm now looking at the 1616. Balanced ins & outs, preamps, headphone amp, 2 midi sets, etc.  And its a cardbus which I think is overall faster than USB and Firewire (not sure about that though). I wouldn't need to use my mic preamp or my headphone amp anymore. I like that idea. The 1616m has better converters, but its $100 US more. Both are kind of expensive really.

http://www.emu.com/products/welcome.asp?category=505&

@all; do you think this would be a good choice? Do you think the better converters are worth $100?

Thanks for all the help!!
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Martin E
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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2008, 10:28:47 PM »

Looks pretty cool, Fred. But for myself I don't really need a lot of ins and outs. I just want the thing to sound good even if it only has a seperated stereo in and out like the M-audio 2496.
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Fred S
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2008, 11:08:40 PM »

Looks pretty cool, Fred. But for myself I don't really need a lot of ins and outs. I just want the thing to sound good even if it only has a seperated stereo in and out like the M-audio 2496.

You probably have a better set up then I, Martin. Don't you use a mixer or preamp, etc.. for your guitar, cans, vocal, etc. inputs?  Which would be sorta the same thing I guess and then you don't need all the inputs on the sound card itself.

I basically just have a mess (splitters, adapters, etc) right now trying to get all my peripherals into the 2496  Cheesy   Stuff I've added happenstance since I've started; three controllers, a preamp with phantom power for the mic, a headphone amp for the cans, the pod xt for the guitar, two sets of speakers. Quite honestly, when I look behind the desk at all the wires, I have absolutely no idea how I got all this stuff to work in the first place  Cheesy Cheesy

Since I'm working toward a DAW right now, I should be careful to buy stuff that better meets my needs. The wife's getting wood floors as a tradeoff, so I might not get another chance Grin

I'm just wondering whether E-mu has a good reputation for reliability/stability and works well with Cakewalk sequencers. Its a Creative Company and I would hope the EMU products are a step above the Soundblaster and Audigy stuff. Not knocking them, I've just heard several folks having problems with them.  I'll probably call Cakewalk and ask on Monday. I'm also still concerned if I should spend the $100 for the better D/A converters. I have no idea how that might effect my overall results.

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rharv
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2008, 12:52:22 AM »

The 'm' series of the EMU cards have some of the best convertors on the market.
 As always, there are tradeoffs,, the EMU rep for nonsupport is one of them.
 That said- the $100 for the better convertors is what makes this card a good choice, otherwise it's not anywhere near as impressive.  Many 'pro' guys using the 'm' series in their portable systems.  For sound quality it's a great choice.
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Wyatt
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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2008, 02:21:23 AM »

Fred,

I can't say if it is going to be worth it to you, but I have never been sorry to have the better converters on my 1212M.

..and I agree with Bob..lousy tech support..which is a real shame..two years ago they were giving great phone..and
if it hadn't been for their terrific phone support back then, I would have more than likely ended up returning the card.

Wyatt
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Fred S
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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2008, 03:54:04 AM »

Thanks Bob & Wyatt! Very helpful info. Unless I uncover some negative info (besides the support), I'm definitely leaning toward the 1616m.
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Moon
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2008, 09:49:44 AM »

I'm just wondering whether E-mu has a good reputation for reliability/stability and works well with Cakewalk sequencers. Its a Creative Company and I would hope the EMU products are a step above the Soundblaster and Audigy stuff. Not knocking them, I've just heard several folks having problems with them.  I'll probably call Cakewalk and ask on Monday. I'm also still concerned if I should spend the $100 for the better D/A converters. I have no idea how that might effect my overall results.

I'm using the 1820m with Sonar and it works fine, allthough I have to admit I had some troubles installing it on my previous DAW. On my new Daw it installed without a hitch. So yes: the m cards of EMU are definietly a good buy and can't be compared with souldblaster stuff. So far my experience...

Moon
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Wyatt
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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2008, 11:02:19 AM »

Oh, and BTW..they did finally come out with new drivers about two weeks ago.

Wyatt
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Fred S
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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2008, 04:58:55 PM »

Ok, done. Ordered the 1616m and some balanced cables.

Thanks everyone for the input!!
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