Imagine....

[folderol]

Hmmmm.

This depends on what you do with a MIDI sequencer. I mostly use it as a sort of multi-track recording device, but sometimes I stepwise record parts I simply don't have the skill to play real-time.

There are a number of my tunes that I can play live all the way though without (too many) mistakes. That includes the one I put up a while ago 'Footsteps' but they are a pale shadow of what I can do once I multitrack them.

I've played in live groups in the past and greatly enjoyed it. I doubt I'd get so much fun out of it now, and my lifestyle makes it hard to find either the time or the people. I'm always interested in collaborations. Of course, this means you have to relinquish some control of your 'baby' and risk the pain of possible disaster.

I did try putting up a track on the L.A.U. list called 'stone soup' which was just a classic chord sequence but nobody was interested

If you don't know the stone soup story see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_soup

[Fred S]

How can I not chime in on this  I haven't provided an opinion all day 

I've played in live groups in the past and greatly enjoyed it.

Probably most here have. Although a long time ago for me, I've had plenty of that experience. Nothing like it, really.  That said however, if I needed a group and a studio to make recorded music now, I probably wouldn't be making any.

Point is for me, that there's not really that much difference between an audio track and midi track as long as its played in. I could mic up my piano and run the lines from the living room to the studio and play in a part, but I'm not likely to do that other than the rarest occasion. More trouble then its worth for me. So I settle for playing in a piano part on a virtual piano on a weighted keyboard. Its still human...just doesn't sound as good.

I like to "play everything in" so I don't use loops or samples (outside a little thunder once in a while ), so I don't. But whose to say that using only loops and samples is not making music. Not me. Its just a different artistic pursuit.

Lastly, timing is an issue. Sometimes I have to do several takes to get timing to a level I'm satisfied with. And, if your talking about "audio track collabing" only, some folks are gonna have a better sense of timing than others. I'm a little picky, so I'd probably run into issues with that. And, I'm not going to spoil anyones artistic pursuit if I can help it!! Consider that, at least in my opinion, its a lot easier to find the pocket when your all playing together at the same time.

Ok, not that the "real time, real instrument, live playing, etc" doesn't appeal to me. It does. And its the truest form of music making. So I get it!! Its just not as practical in an internet collabing pursuit, IMO.

[elwoodblues1969]

With regard to live playing,more specifically-going out to a bar or club to see a band perform,everything must be played live with no pre-recorded backing whatsoever,in order for me to fully enjoy the performance.

In fact,the bigger the band,the more interesting it gets interaction wise,but when it comes to creating & recording at home(especially with my isolated life),I cannot live without my midi sequencer & multi track recorder.

Whatever I do at home,whether it's all performed by myself,or there's some collaboration with someone on this forum,I am proud of everything I do,because even though it's automated,it's still created by me and it still has the human touch,because my fingers and my mind & soul are involved.

In the past,I have performed with a number of different people and some of the experiences were good & enriching,but for the most part,it usually tends to be difficult finding compatiblity with someone & when there is multiple people invloved,there's always some potential for more conflict which interferes with creativity & getting things accomplished in a reasonable amount of time.

Forming a band to perform on a regular basis can really be a nightmare,as there is always someone in the band that is not as dedicated to the craft as I or you are and if that is not the problem,someone eventually gets married,or wants to go solo,or move away somewhere and then you have to start from scratch again.

I have know quite a few people that were involved in a band that was decent,but when the founding member of the band goes off on his own,the music this person creates tends to be sigificantly better,because this person is focused with unbridled creativity & ideas,because none of the personality conflicts or time contraints get in the way of the music.

I don't mean to sound so cynnical & negative,but to me,a band is like a marriage,in that you have to find that rare special person(s) that you thrive with,that brings out the best in you and that's so hard to find.

Kara's specialty is playing live and I respect and admire that greatly,but my specialty is being a programmer & a studio based muscician,which allows me to accomplish all the things I was unable to do outside of this realm.

I also like alot of electronic music as well and  one of my biggest influences is artists like Howard Jones & Jan Hammer.

As far as having that human connection with interacting with other people,well,I myself,am pretty much satisfied with the collaborations I have done here on this forum.

Also,as important as my hobby is to me,it's still just a hobby and I am only willing to devote just so much time to my craft,as I am a lost,restless soul and I am not really able to stay focused on my music as much as some others,so sequencing is all I really have time for,most days.

Don't read me wrong though,as this forum is very important to me and the people on this forum have inspired me to write more music now,than I have in any other time in my life.

In fact,I think I have really peaked musically,thanks to you fine people.

Thom

[kara]

That 'Stone soupe' story is great ! I didn't know it 

There is a lot of interesting opinions and feedback in this thread, very interesting reading.

It makes me realize that 'making' music changes a lot, due to new tools and new technology. I personaly still like realy playing an instrument line that I like. I never have the same satisfiction from something I programmed that I have from something I've realy played.
I can take my bass guitar and jam during an hour over a drumloop just to find new rifs or lines. And alltough I didn't create something have a great time.

On the other hand it's allso a fact that a lot of new music styles changed the way of making music. In the 'old' days it was all about keys, chord progressions and melody. I have the impression that in a lot of 'new' music styles it is more about sculpting sounds then it is about the musical content.... or perhaps that is the new definition of 'musical content'.

Agree ?

k

[Martin E]

I personaly still like realy playing an instrument line that I like. I never have the same satisfiction from something I programmed that I have from something I've realy played.

I don't really understand this, Kara. As Fred pointed out you still need to play all the parts (Guitars, Bass,Keyboards) into the sequencer;so that's real playing to me. (providing you don't use loops or other ready made sampled material) I never use any quantizing on my midiparts because it destroys the feel. For drumparts I may use Jamstix or ready-made midigrooves from a midilibrary which I will edit to fit the song I'm working on. However these mididrumparts were recorded using a real drummer.

Forming a band to perform on a regular basis can really be a nightmare,as there is always someone in the band that is not as dedicated to the craft as I or you are and if that is not the problem,someone eventually gets married,or wants to go solo,or move away somewhere and then you have to start from scratch again.

I can really relate to this. It was the main reason I quit playing in bands. I got fed up with these musicians who didn't seem to be as dedicated as I was. It just wasn't worth the effort I put in. So I decided to focus on songwriting instead and I haven't had any regrets making this move.

[kara]

I don't really understand this, Kara. As Fred pointed out you still need to play all the parts (Guitars, Bass,Keyboards) into the sequencer;so that's real playing to me. (providing you don't use loops or other ready made sampled material) I never use any quantizing on my midiparts because it destroys the feel. For drumparts I may use Jamstix or ready-made midigrooves from a midilibrary which I will edit to fit the song I'm working on. However these mididrumparts were recorded using a real drummer.

Ah but there I agree, if you play the parts yourself, there is (in principle) no difference between recording realtime midi and realtime audio.
In my original post I was refering of step entering midi of instruments you DON't play versus asking another musician to play them for you.

k

[Marc JX8P]

So basically, your main objection against midi sequencers is that they allow you to re-edit something you have played until it is what you wanted in the first place, instead of having to either learning to play it directly or asking someone else to play it?

[kara]

No it isn't... it's against NOT playing but step entering

And actually it not realy AGAINST, my statement was that it would be much more fun to collaborate with an artist then step entering an instrument that you don't play...


k

So basically, your main objection against midi sequencers is that they allow you to re-edit something you have played until it is what you wanted in the first place, instead of having to either learning to play it directly or asking someone else to play it?

[Martin E]

No it isn't... it's against NOT playing but step entering

And actually it not realy AGAINST, my statement was that it would be much more fun to collaborate with an artist then step entering an instrument that you don't play...

Ok, point taken, Kara. This wasn't really clear from your first post in this thread.

[kara]

for that I have an excuse of course, I'm french 

k

Ok, point taken, Kara. This wasn't really clear from your first post in this thread.

[Fred S]

Maybe the confusion Rony, is that when your thinking of a sequencer, your thinking of step-sequencing. That is not really the main advantage to a sequencer. Although, it is for someone with music in their heart and not in their fingers. The sequencer is a very handy way to record, organize and mix your music tracks.

I'll bet it would be fun to watch to French men argue 

[kara]

I'll bet it would be fun to watch to French men argue 

We have the best way in the world to argue...
here is how we do it :
ok, you have an argument with somebody
1. Bring out a bottle of (fill in your favourite here...)
2. Serve
3. Each time you don't agree refill the glasses and drink

after half an hour, you both agree that you forgot about what you where argueing

heu.... what was the point again ?

k

[Wyatt]

I'll bet it would be fun to watch to French men argue 

We have the best way in the world to argue...
here is how we do it :
ok, you have an argument with somebody
1. Bring out a bottle of (fill in your favourite here...)
2. Serve
3. Each time you don't agree refill the glasses and drink

after half an hour, you both agree that you forgot about what you where argueing

heu.... what was the point again ?

k

Ok..now all we need to do is make you president of the united nations. 

Wyatt

[Fred S]

I'll bet it would be fun to watch to French men argue 

We have the best way in the world to argue...
here is how we do it :
ok, you have an argument with somebody
1. Bring out a bottle of (fill in your favourite here...)
2. Serve
3. Each time you don't agree refill the glasses and drink

after half an hour, you both agree that you forgot about what you where argueing

heu.... what was the point again ?

k

I must agree, you all have it worked out quite well!!!

[elwoodblues1969]

There's nothing quite like the convergence of all these different musicians & thier styles & methods coming into play on so many different levels,as it is on this particular forum...you gotta love it!

No where else on the interent,can you have debates that remain amicable,to where no one gets really bent out of shape-regardless of the level of indifference.

Usually,disputes are ironed out much easier in person,face to face,but everyone here manages quite well to resolve disagreements.

All the content in this thread brings up some very interesting thoughts,such as say,20 years ago,when I used to record in a former friend's studio & I had other keyboard players around me and it was all recorded on a Tascam 4 track.

It was great fun & rewarding for the most part,but it was not without it's various problems,of which I do not miss at all.

All in all,it was a good learning experience in retrospect,but I would not want to do it over again,because my current studio far surpasses the one I recorded in back then and the other great advantage is,is that I do not have to rely on that person,or his equipment to get done what I want to accomplish.

However though,I would definately be open to having a guitar player come into my studio to lay down some tracks & ideas and if the oppurtunity ever arose, & I would welcome it with much enthusiasm.

Thom