Tony and his band.

[Oren]

Tony is known as "anf" over on the PG Music forums, a singer and musician.
He wrote most of this song and performs the melody vocal.
I play guitar and built the BIAB file around his vocal.
Bob (rharv) sings 5-part harmonies. Really.

Children Pay the Price

(this is a preliminary mix - any recommendations?)

[folderol]

This is a good song. Tony seems to be a rock-solid singer. Very clear amd precise.

I like the instrumentation you built up. Just one minor critique is the background organ/keyboard sounds a bit thin and weak.

On a technical point, what amp are you using for the guitar? It's only noticable right at the end but it seems to have quite a high noise level.

[rharv]

Since I had some inside info on this;  I don't think it was the guitar.
 I think he let the original vocal track run too long.
 Oren may want to try doing a cut/fade on those as soon as they are done singing.
 If I remember, the vocal track had a lot if hiss at the beginning and end..
then again, judging by the effects used, some noise could have accumulated from here ttoo, on those six tracks I sent. If I recall, that was right before I replaced my processor fan, and I was recording right in front of the computer while I did those 'scratch' backups.  I should know better, but I didn't think they were final product...

 Otherwise you did a great job rebuilding a whole song and style around an existing vocals.
 If everybody had heard the original version, with it's BiaB basic formula background, they would be as impressed as I am with how much you did. I know you used the same BiaB tools, but what a difference!

Just hope Tony likes it!  His song sounds much different now.

[Oren]

Will,

My guitar amps are 1. a Kustom Tube 12 with a 12AX7 in the pre-amp and a 12 watt solid-state power amp.
                                     8" Celestion speaker. Good for  living-room level jam sessions.
                                2. a hand soldered 7 watt single-ended class A tube amp that drives a JBL 15" speaker in
                                      an old Traynor cabinet. Very good sound, but will jolt the player into sobriety at the
                                      most  inconvenient times, being that it's wired without a ground plug.
I record with a Digitech RP12 that is essentially noiseless, unless I get silly and stand too near a CRT
                                    monitor.

That organ sound is indeed thin. I can render the MIDI file to digital audio and thicken it up.
                                                ___________________________________________

Bob,

Yup...time for some cut and fade action....details - don't ya love 'em ?

In many ways we approached this song as an exercise, and to be candid, the workout feels like it's pretty much over and it's time to hit the showers...

Oren.

[folderol]

Will,

My guitar amps are 1. a Kustom Tube 12 with a 12AX7 in the pre-amp and a 12 watt solid-state power amp.
                                     8" Celestion speaker. Good for  living-room level jam sessions.
                                2. a hand soldered 7 watt single-ended class A tube amp that drives a JBL 15" speaker in
                                      an old Traynor cabinet. Very good sound, but will jolt the player into sobriety at the
                                      most  inconvenient times, being that it's wired without a ground plug.

Mmmm. Valves (tubes)

I could go on for hours about them. In a previous life I was a valve geek before there were such people as geeks.

Did you know that the EL34 can handle exactly the same anode (plate) voltage as the KT88 while being of much lighter construction (can't handle the current though). If you look very closely at the two side by side you might get a clue as to why. The reason is also partly related to the EL34s poorer low/mid distortion performance, although that makes it the preferred type for guitar amps, whereas '88s used to be popular for HiFi amps.

Also the 12AX7 (ECC83) is the direct descendent of the ECC33 and is electrically almost identical in spite of being so much smaller, and of course less microphonic.

As if that in not enough, take delight in the knowledge that the EF86, was just about the only valve with a spirally formed heater in order to minimise hum injection. This spiral winding meant that elecromagnetic coulping was cancelled. This is of course much harder to achieve than simple electrostatic screening.

  <sigh>

[Oren]

Oddly enough, as a bass player, I had little regard for valves/tubes in musical instrument amplifiers.

The Traynor Mono-Bloc reigned supreme for touring bassists - massive, clean, controllable sound; also rugged and reliable. Kustom made some solid-state heavy hitters for both guitar and bass, as did GBX.

Only in the last few years have I been delving into valve/tube sound reinforcement, just in time to witness the digital synthesis developers finally distill the essence of that warmth and presence. Apparently it largely consists of "even-order harmonics", coupled with varying degrees of compression. The folks at Digitech have thoughtfully provided these ingredients in a series of guitar processors that allow the individual player to dial in his/her own idea of how a valve/tube pre-amp should sound. And they blow both of my carefully selected valve/tube amps....away

[folderol]

I always thought that a valve pre-amp and solid-state power section was a good compromise.

The problem was never the the valves - it was the *&^%$ transformers. If the core is big enough to handle the bass, it's too sluggish to handle the highs. The difference between a bass amp and an 'ordinary' amp was almost entirely the size of the transformer! Modern toroids, with better grades of iron go a long way to improving this, but you're still liable to get core saturation if you pound that bass

edit:

Mind you there is something positively primeaval seeing the sharp blue glow in a hard driven bank of EL34s shift and focus with the beat of the music, especially when you know you are watching the over-energised electrons streaming through the holes in the anodes and flourescing as they smash against the glass envelope.

Phew. I think I need that cold shower now

[Oren]

I've seen photographs of a fascinating stereo integrated tube amp incorporating valves only - no transformers. Unfortunately the website is proves elusive at this time....

[folderol]

In the 70s I did some experimenting with transformerless designs myself, but quickly realised they were incredibly inefficient power-wise and also could be *kin' dangerous so didn't persue it, especially with the 'new' silicon power transistors creeping into my price range.

Hey, I'd better pack this in. It's getting waaaay off topic

[Mike]

I think it is a great song, with great vocals and harmonies.
As stated this is a musical work-out and the shower-time is well deserved, but I think this song has more in it then being just a musical experiment! I'd say record it with a complete live band and have a hitselling record!

Mike

[Oren]

Mike,

Thanks for your encouragement!
I'll tidy this critter up and leave this version complete with synthetic backing tracks, but down the road Tony, Bob and I may have another go at it - without robotic assistance

Oren.