Imagine....

[kara]

that there would be NO MIDI sequencers !
I was thinking about that this night 

Well to be honnest, wouldn't that be great ? How many songs do we make all alone in our studio ?
Now imagine the KM forum without the existing sequencers...
Everybody would share there songs, asking other musicians to contribute, and we would end up with only live played songs 

Wouldn't this be great ? 

k

[Marc JX8P]

Interesting thought - but for my music I couldn't miss a sequencer. For some kinds of music it would be better though to avoid a sequencer, I imagine.

[Wyatt]

that there would be NO MIDI sequencers !
I was thinking about that this night 

Well to be honnest, wouldn't that be great ? How many songs do we make all alone in our studio ?
Now imagine the KM forum without the existing sequencers...
Everybody would share there songs, asking other musicians to contribute, and we would end up with only live played songs 

Wouldn't this be great ? 

k

Yes!! ..now you're talking..then we wouldn't have top say that BIAB should be very proud of itself. 

Wyatt

[kara]

Why couldn't you miss a sequencer ?
Do you mean a midi sequencer because you have to enter note by note or an audio sequencer because you have multiple audio tracks ?

k

Interesting thought - but for my music I couldn't miss a sequencer. For some kinds of music it would be better though to avoid a sequencer, I imagine.

[Marc JX8P]

I almost never enter note by note, except for drum loops and certain Jarre-style arpeggio's. But I'd miss the multiple audio tracks and the easy use of VSTs and VSTis. Also, a sequencer is great for automating a mix.

Having said that, maybe I should say that I wouldn't want to miss a sequencer, rather than could not.

Edit: I only just noticed that you specifically mention MIDI sequencers. So you would find and audio sequencer (that stores no midi data) ok?

Why couldn't you miss a sequencer ?
Do you mean a midi sequencer because you have to enter note by note or an audio sequencer because you have multiple audio tracks ?

k

Interesting thought - but for my music I couldn't miss a sequencer. For some kinds of music it would be better though to avoid a sequencer, I imagine.

[kara]

Well you know Wyatt, I own BIAB since a long time (since version 7 or so I think).
And from my experience with it, it can create some nice basic ideas pretty quickly but I never ever heard it create something 'out of the box' of which i should be proud off. And very often it's more work to correct the created tracks then to create them from scratch.

We use it most in music school to create some fast track to exercise on, and for that it is good. But it's far from a finished song!
And even when people create complete songs with BIAB, i mostly reconize them immediatly (see some of my comments in the pgmusicians section).
What software like that misses is the interaction between the different musicians in a band!
If I listen to a bass track created in BIAB... yes it is theoritical correct and depending of the quality of the style file that is used it is more or less good, but it plays just on his own following the chord that has been entered, and that's it. I've never heard a track where I was thinking, yes a real bass player would play it that way.

I'm not saying it isn't any good, but you have to accept the limitations of the software.

Comming back to my initial point, wouldn't it be nice just to ask another real musician to play the part  

k

that there would be NO MIDI sequencers !
I was thinking about that this night 

Well to be honnest, wouldn't that be great ? How many songs do we make all alone in our studio ?
Now imagine the KM forum without the existing sequencers...
Everybody would share there songs, asking other musicians to contribute, and we would end up with only live played songs 

Wouldn't this be great ? 

k

Yes!! ..now you're talking..then we wouldn't have top say that BIAB should be very proud of itself. 

Wyatt

[Martin E]

Kara, you make it sound as if sequencers are a bad thing. There's more positive sides to it as well. I can't record drums live at home so a drumvst in a sequencer is really a blessing for me. For any homeproject studio recording instruments live will be a problem and one would have to invest loads of money to get the same quality one can get with a sequencer. I remember the time I had to save money to be able to record in a studio to record 4 or 5 songs. Now I can do it at home. What more do you want?
Well I know what you want. More of a live feel maybe.  That's however a small compromise.

[kara]

Sure, you would still need an audio sequencer to mix the tracks.
But if you would work only with other mucisians something like audacity would do.
Or even my Boss BR600

My point actually is, that what I allways loved about music is playing and exchanging ideas with other musicians. Now with all virtual instruments and stuff like that, a lot of people lock them up in a small room called 'home studio' and there is no personal contact anymore.

k

....
Edit: I only just noticed that you specifically mention MIDI sequencers. So you would find and audio sequencer (that stores no midi data) ok?

[kara]

Or you could ask a drummer somewhere on the planet to play your track...

I know it isn't only bad, but well, it's different...

Or, perhaps I'm just getting old

k

Kara, you make it sound as if sequencers are a bad thing. There's more positive sides to it as well. I can't record drums live at home so a drumvst in a sequencer is really a blessing for me. For any homeproject studio recording instruments live will be a problem and one would have to invest loads of money to get the same quality one can get with a sequencer. I remember the time I had to save money to be able to record in a studio to record 4 or 5 songs. Now I can do it at home. What more do you want?
Well I know what you want. More of a live feel maybe.  That's however a small compromise.

[Marc JX8P]

I like the reasoning, promoting contact between musicians. Not every musician is a band player though and some need to isolate themselves. For myself, working with a sequencer has learned me so much about arrangement and construction of music.

Still, I fully agree that it has led to an isolation in some cases. Collaborating with other musicians is always very interesting and fun to me. Still, even when I collaborate I use my sequencer (though admittedly not with midi but with audio parts).

[Wyatt]

And even when people create complete songs with BIAB, i mostly reconize them immediatly (see some of my comments in the pgmusicians section).

Someone gave me BIAB 2004 as a gift once..and yes, I agree with you..you can hear it in an instant. I have never once made a song with it.

I think what happens is you can save a midi song and then assign better instruments to it in another sequencer??..which is an accomplishment in itself..and for me, I am agreeing with you that real musicians playing real instruments is better. But you and I might be becoming dinosaurs! 

Still and all, when technology does the composing, that is seductive, and diminishes the quality of musicianship. Music is not that easy to learn and takes a long time. In the last 20 years I have watched in many areas where easy triumphs over hard-won skill over and over..that is a sad song.

Playing with other musicians has an entirely wonderful aspect to it..the intuitive blending of awareness of each other..the music has life, soul, and vitality.

Wyatt

[offthewall]

 
Well, count me in with the dinosaurs!
I totally agree with Kara. I almost always use live instruments through the audio sequencer (Reaper for me) and the very few times that I use Midi I feel as if I've cheated, even though I'm not very good with it!
Even for drum parts I find that I would rather tap out the parts on the Roland keyboard to record as audio than use some drum Vsti.
 
James

[Wyatt]

Well, count me in with the dinosaurs!

 
James

Welcome to dinosaur-land..nice blues you put up recently too, btw..

Wyatt

PS..my favorite drum machine:

[TheBellows]

Does Renoise count as a MIDI-sequenser? Then i'm against it, can't live without it! 

I must say though, bringing instruments to the woods and play along with friends is probably my greatest musical memories. 

[Laguna Rising]

It could be interesting 
I'd play bass on many tracks other than mine...     ...maybe