How do you record & mix ?

[kara]

Again an interesting discusion ....
I personally like to focus on the live aspect of a performance. I never over compress or put to much (in my opinion) reverb on a track.
Actually I like a song recorded as it is played.

So how do you make your mixes ? Following the modern trends and compress it to a max to make it as loud as possible ? A good mid compromise? you don't like to compress ?
Let us know ?

An example of how I mix is this song. Of course a jazz standard played by Miss Kara.
Since Moon told me that my on my last recording the sax (which wasn't a sax but a muted trumpet    ) sounded as a sick duck, I've paid some attention to recording levels this time 

Actually what is perhaps interesting about this mix, is that it is completely done on a hardware recorder, the Boss BR600. Even the final pre-mastering has been done on that little Boss, using his internal CMOS effects.

Now, my question, do you think
1. It's bad
2. It could be better
3. It's good but could be more 'modern' as a mix
4. It's a great mix 

Feel free to comment, that's why forums are made for 

o something else; if you want to invite your ladies for a dance, now is time... one of the lovely romantic song ever written, and Miss Kara knows how to play it 

[Fred S]

So how do you make your mixes ? Following the modern trends and compress it to a max to make it as loud as possible ? A good mid compromise? you don't like to compress ?
Let us know ?

I'll use compression occasionally, but mostly just at the track level....like an fx if an instrument needs a little edge. I try to finish the song and the mix completely before I do any mastering, and once at that stage, I try to never go back to the mixing stage. Sometimes you just have to, but its the rare occasion for me. I also use very little compression at the mastering stage. Sometimes I'll use it on the bottom end to tighten stuff up a bit, but never as a volume booster. Then I'll use a volume maximizer as the final tweak and usually cut about 2 percent off the top; just enough to get a little volume without loosing any noticeable dynamics. Honestly, I can't understand why the current trend is to max volume at the expense of dynamics, when IMO, dynamics are an integral and critical element to music    If you can't tell, I hate that trend 

[Laguna Rising]

Well, I agree with Fred on blaming the extreme-compression fashion which seems to never ends.
I often use compression on drums, I seldom use it on other instruments. If you use the so-called amp simulators and you record a dry signal you probably will need it, if you record from bass amp or gtr amp with a mic you shouldn't need to compress it.
Of course this is my personal way and could be different for others, anyway I try not to be influenced by the modern trends.

I think reverb was abused in the 80's nowdays we have a different taste and knowledge, and I almost hear it used wisely

Cheers

[kara]

Yes I do agree on compression on drums. But the reason is IMHO that with drumsamples & vsti you don't get the impact of a drumset micked directly, so you need that extra punch.
The fact of recording with mics is allso a very valid method that a lot of people seems to forget nowaday, but who is very powerfull. Even with electronic instruments it stays important to keep the dynamics and the real sound in a studio. A lot of technofiels (funny word) take the dry signal directly from the output of the VSti or even the hardware, without even considering to let it sound in the studio and mic it.

But I certainly don't like to crunch a max of db in a song to make it as loud as possible and loose all dynamics.
A wise lesson a sound engineer explained to me was, if a track isn't loud enough, lower the volume of the other tracks or use an EQ to give it his proper place in the mix, but making it as loud as possible isn't a solution.

 

[Martin E]

How do I record?

Here's my basic set-up

The way I record is determined by the place where I record and that is in the attic of my house. Now this sounds more cramped than it actually is. It's quite a large space because the house has a sliding roof. It does mean I'm not able to record electric guitars through an amp or live drums without upsetting the neighbours. So I don't. Vocals and acoustic guitars are the only two I record with a mic.

For e-guitar and bassguitar I use the Toneport UX1 by Line 6.
I also use it for vocals. I the run a condenser mic through a Presonus Pre-amp (mandatory to give the mic phantom power) and then through one of the vocal amp models of the Toneport. This also means I can cut out noise by using a gate from the Toneport. The Toneport is connected to the computer by USB. So no hassle there. I sold my Behringer mixer a few months ago because I had no use for it anymore. I sometimes still use hardware modules and these I run through the Toneport as well. I think this is a very neat little set-up which takes up a minimum of space and has a maximum of ease of use.

My host is Cubase SX 2.2. I have purchased a fair number of Vst's the last three years and have decided not to buy any more for the time being. My latest purchases were Truepianos, Ueberschall Horn Section and Addictive Drums. With all the vst's I have now I have a large pallette of sounds at my hands that will keep me busy for a while.

That's the recording set up. I have to go now. I'll get back about the mixing.

Martin

[NeoN]

I only have regular Micros to record my Voice..
This means that the Sound quality is not the best, I mean if I give you to listen one of my Voice Recordings alone you'll notice a background noise. I edit and mix my Vocals in FL studio,
using a multiband Compressor and of course some Levels of reverb.
In some cases use a special effect
called "RetroDelay" (a special kind of delay)

[blipp]

My setup is quite boring compared to some as it's just my computer, a controller keyboard and cakewalk project5. This is ample for my needs and does'nt take up any extra space. I also have a couple of guitars and a zoom G2 amp simulator unit if i ever want to record some guitar.

I, like most here see compression as a nessessary evil rather than a virtue. I like to compress a mix as little as i can get away with, but i do need to have some, especially with some of the sounds i use or it would sound lifeless and flabby.

The trend for going for a super-loud mix is something i fight against. I much prefer the albums recorded in the 60's and 70's as they sound much more alive and dynamic. Some albums recorded during the 80's and after have a production which has totally ruined it for me and i can't enjoy them, even if i like the music.

This is one of the best articles i've seen on this subject. It is very long, but it's a great read if you're interested in this subject:   http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/imperfect-sound-forever.html

[kara]

Very good article, Blip. Interesting.
I've just got some new toys
A Studioproject Vtb1 pre-amp and a B3MkII mic 

[Laguna Rising]

Very good article, Blip. Interesting.

Yeah, I agree it's really interesting, and it makes me think on using compression as a creative tool...
and the 'user errors' , loudness maximizing and all that...
It's an useful read

Cheers

[emdot_ambient]

Well . . . it's probably useful to first mention how I typically compose.

Most of my songs are built on top of a repetitive motif, which is typically inspired by a particular preset, made either by me, or tweaked while preset surfing. So once I have that core (which is often modified by hand in a MIDI editor--adding variations and slight pattern alterations to keep it from sounding too robotic), I build the song by adding new parts tailored to compliment and contrast the core pattern. These could be live, could be arpeggiated parts, so I'm not too concerned about a live performance of sound, I'm more focused on the overall aural experience.

As for mixing, since my songs usually are built up around a core part, I tend to mix individual tracks as I go along, making sure that each sits well as the piece is developed. This almost always involves tweaking presets, adding FX (or removing them if they are part of a preset), track level EQ and track level compression if I deem it necessary to get the track's present in the mix. Drums and bass I always, always EQ and compress, though it's not really to make them loud, but rather to make sure they're loud enough without swamping the song.

On the master track I add nothing typically other than a bit of limiting just to keep random peaks in check.

This generally delivers a very good mix result. After I render to a wav file, I then do a quick multiband compression, EQ, limit and normalize routine in Adobe's Audition.

The compression debate, in my mind, is a classic case of pendulum thinking. In the old days compressors were pretty much strictly studio gear. Musicians didn't understand them and couldn't afford them. Even still, engineers went very soft on them. If you rip wav files off old vinyl LPs (pre-1980s), you'll find that very little compression was used. Commercial music nowadays has swung to the other end of the pendulum. It's totally ridiculous how much it's abused. Compression and digital clipping are rampant in commercial products. It really hurts my ears and sounds horrible.

That being said, in the independent music world--like here and on KVR--there's a trend to swing back the other way yet again, eschewing compression as a knee-jerk reaction to its abuse in commercial music.

I'm completely convinced that judicious compression, especially multiband compression in mastering, does a world of good. It can turn a good sounding mix into a stunning mix without totally wrecking the dynamics (which is really kind of a moot subject unless you're doing certain genres like jazz or prog rock or symphonic music).

That's my philosophy and I'm sticking to it . . . until I decide not to

[Moon]

Kara... glad to gear that the duck got better. No let's hope that the mic recovers soon form it's cold too. 

I'm kidding of course.

I would love to hear the version recorded with the new mic though 

[kara]

Comming soon Moon

[Mick Emery]

I've only been doing this since August of '06, so I'm REALLY in the learner stage.
I have no musicians near me so I have to improvise...I should also add that I'm "keyboard challenged" when it comes to playing in real time.

Everything is done in my laptop.  I have a firewire interface to get my Synthophone (which is playing a VL70m or XV2020) into the recording software.  Sometimes I get a chord progression in my mind & enter it into Band In A Box.  Sometimes it's a melody & I try to hear the chords I want behind it & enter them.  I then look for a style that's close to what I want. (although, to me, it's quite limited)  Then I export that to Power Tracks & record my melody & any backing tracks.

Panning & volume are easy enough for me to understand, but compression etc. is pretty Greek to me.  I'm still trying to figure that out   Many years ago I could walk into the studio, someone would say "play this".  I'd play my part & then leave.  I was never a part of the "magic" that occurred after the track was laid down.  I now realize why they (the engineers) were so valuable.

I record & mix out of necessity not desire.  But it is quite interesting.  Trying to learn recording & mixing has taken time away from re-learning how to play, which is pretty necessary for me at this point!!!

I'm glad you're all here!

Mick
www.mickemery.com

[kara]

Yes it is true that we have to face new challenges...
With all new and affordable technical stuff, now we not only have to play our instrument but allso know how to record, mix, pre-master,....

And sometimes even become a MS windows expert to understand why suddenly this or that doesn't work anymore !

And I'm not even talking about all free and paid Vsti's that come out every week.
For that I have found a solution, I've quit I stick to my hardware synths 
I realy don't have the time to learn all those Vsti's

[Laguna Rising]

I realy don't have the time to learn all those Vsti's

  that's true, there's a new one every day, I don't even the time to try out all the free ones and the commercial demo.
I look for it when I need one 

Cheers