Kara-Moon Forum

i found my old tremolo harmonica today, it sparked my interest in harmonicas, and i want to get a more capable one. to be specific, i want a harmonica which is tuned as follows:


i don't see a need for it to have the standard button chromatic harmonicas have, and i could live with it being only 12 holes long rather than 14, but i have no idea what harmonicas exist which meet these criteria, any clues guys?

oh, almost forgot - if i could choose, i'd prefer it to be baritone instead of tenor.

thanks.

I'm sure Wyatt knows the answer to this, he has a couple of them

Wyatt, where are you ???

k

Hi Psy-T,

You might be able to get exactly what you want. I would contact Hohner
directly:

Hohner Europe, contact:

http://www.hohner.eu/index.php?726

They have some beautiful tremolo harps:

Tremolo harp sextet:

http://www.hohnerusa.com/index.php?63

Tremolo single:

http://www.hohnerusa.com/index.php?63

..I have three Hohner chromatic harps..I don't find the slide button all that useful, myself, but do appreciate the full scale that the diatonic harps don't offer, and the added range.

..on the other hand I also have a ton of 10 hole harps..both Hohner Blues Harps, and Lee Oskar, (Tombo) harps. Lee Oskar has a huge amount of reed plates available, and I have heard of folks who mix and match the reed plates to get all manner of scale possibilities..I mean, if you wanted a phryggin myxolydian scale you could have it. :)

You might get ahold of him..at least before before he started his production business, that is, he had been known to return phonecalls and help out..particularly since you know exactly what you want..but, as I said these are 10 hole harps.

Lee Oskar direct:

http://www.leeoskar.com/


When you can control your scales like that, you can do some awesome stuff..there is a guy who plays harp for all the world like Van Halen lead guitar..John Poppy of the Blues Travelers..not my bag, but mind blowing that it can be done and done so bloody well.

Keep in touch, and let me know how you do with your quest.

Wyatt

thanks wyatt, i'll be sure to let you know how it goes. :)

so far no reply from Hohner, and i also checked out a few local musical instruments retailers, no luck with them. :(

I'm sorry to hear that isn't resolved yet.

Did you email, or phone?

It seems to me that it is more difficult now to get
that kind of help, than it used to be not so very many
years ago.


Wyatt

i emailed. i would have had a tough time explaining exactly what it is that i want over the phone. ;)

..email can take a while..I  hope it works out.

..if you do end up having to call, it would be cool to find someone
who is helpful..as a future resource.



Wyatt

hmm, for the meantime, have you got any clue which 'standard' scale i can get harmonicas in would be closest to what i want?

if you do, it would help a lot if you could include a 'schematic' like the one i did in the original post with the note placement.

p.s.
i noticed i can jam along to that short composition you posted with my old tremolo harmonica :p

Hi Psy-T,

OK..it looks like we have to get some traction here.

To start with:

Most of the time Harps are simply sold by what key they are in. All the charts I have that show the notes for each different hole, begin with the root of the key they are in..I don't have one for Bb, so I can’t say about the rest of your notes.


Wyatt

i considered which keys i play most often, and which keys i enjoy listening to the most, and thought long and hard about how i want the notes of the key (and the ones that don't belong to the key) divided between blows and draws. i wanted the notes that don't belong in the key for wider versatility, mostly for improvisation, but also to play in other keys, even if that may be cumbersome. the C note is my root, but i hate being limited in my improvisation by having my root note be the lowest note, which is why i rather insist on having a Bb/A# hole precede it.


any and all?  ;D


C minor, for the most part.


both.


i haven't managed to bend on my tremolo so far, and that tremolo accounts for all my harmonica experience so far, never say never though. ;)


both minors came pretty close to the main notes i'd want, but i'd really prefer to have all notes on a harmonica, rather than only those belonging to a particular key.


www.psy-t.com/07-09-16-fluffy_pink_circle-a.mp3 < a work in progress, fits our purpose because it's in my usual key, and because there's still some space to work in and jam with, seeing as it is awaiting shushi's vocals.
see my entry to this month's kara-moon contest for an example of me playing with different keys, should illustrate why i want all of the notes available. :)


my harmonica is a tremolo harmonica made by Hero (china) in the 80s, it doesn't have a letter stamped on it anywhere. it is tuned as follows:
"Common tuning in East Asia
 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
|G |d |C |f |E |a |G |b |C |d |E |f |G |a |C |b |E |d |G |f |C |a |E |b |
|G |d |C |f |E |a |G |b |C |d |E |f |G |a |C |b |E |d |G |f |C |a |E |b |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
" (source, wikipedia's tremolo harmonica article)

or in the way i write the tuning:


cheers for the help Wyatt :)

edit: fixed a typo, it's in bold.

Personally,

I'd like to hear a medley of Wyatt's favourite harp tunes, featuring Wyatt's playing, of course. The few performances I have heard are impressive.

Care to twist up a little sampler for us HarpMan?

Oren.

Psy-T:  ..got it..can't play now..everybody still asleep  ;D
..laterz.

Oren:  ..interesting idea..thanks for asking..hmm, lemme see now..

Wyatt

Hi Psy-T,

OK..I got dizzy trying to re-quote all that, so I decided to write this in my wp in split screen..

..it sounds to me like you are looking for a “one harp does everything” solution here:

http://www.hohnerusa.com/index.php?36

The chromatic harp is capable of playing all major, minor, pentatonic, and blues scale.

So is that the harp for you?? ..that’s not so easy to answer..but for starters let me point out that you would have to study the instrument until you could play all those different separate scales in your sleep, without thinking, as it were, before that bold statement would be true for you.

Having said that, let me point out that the Super Chromonica is available in 9 different keys..if it is a do-everything harmonica, then why 9 different keys?

As to key, as it relates to playing style:

If you are playing melody, you are in first position, with a harp in the same key as the song..if you are bending notes and getting blues-ey with it, then you are playing in second position, (cross-harp), for which you need a harp that is four steps above the key of the song.

So, you see it is a simple question, but not a simple answer.

This is getting very long and still we are just scratching the surface..so I am going to post this and then try to tie this up so it makes some sense in my next post in, (hopefully), a few minutes

Wyatt

Psy-T,

Well my last post is taking a long time to load..oops..lost it..having trouble connecting to the board.

..so I will continue on the wp.

I am not a fan of learning harmonica the way the books teach. I use an instinctive instinctive approach..there is still a lot of technique to learn, but in the end, when I want a particular note I know just where it is without thinking.

..which may not be everyones cup of tea..but for me, when I want a certain sound or a particular note, if that note is on the harmonica I will hit it the first time..anything I can hear I can play If the notes are there..

(haha..so I am sympathetic to your quest)..I imagine the chromatic harp could be learned that way also, but it would be levels of magnitude more time to learn..I have managed, however to learn one song at a time fairly well..but I don't find a chromatic harp that expressive.

If I was getting one harp I would get some kind of a harp in C. For me, I like Blues Harps..Then play melody to songs in C, and cross-harp to songs in G.

If I was wanting to record a particular song in whatever key, I go out and get the harp I need for that song..those minor harps are fun.

I can’t give you a definitive answer on the Cm song you posted yet..that was step one..step 2 is that if you can make me a version of that song in Bm, I will try it with a couple Lee Oskar Harmonic Minor harps, (Bm and Em).  Then you can decide if you like the sound.

I will be posting more about harp playing shortly with some examples.

Wyatt

Whew!!

Finally..I'm back..I made a twist of clips from 7 songs.

Anyone interested can find it in "From the Shadows"..hehe..where else.  ;D

Wyatt

sure, but why would i want the button/slider that chromatics generally have? why add that additional level of complexity (which probably multiplies the difficult of 'mastering' it) if all the notes could be accessed without it as in my desired 'design'?

aren't there chromatics without the button/slider?

same here, i have never been taught to play the harmonica, but just as soon as i laid hands upon it, i was jamming  :D


sure, i'll do that tomorrow (it's 5am :p)

You most likely wouldn't want the slider..it's stifling..

..more later..gotta run

Wyatt

EDIT to add:  Yes, Psy, I was trying to indicate to you that the chromatic might not be the big "solution in the sky"..sorry if in my haste yesterday,  I may not have made that clear.

I like my chromatics, and seldom use them..and when I do, 99% of the time I don't use the slider..I just like the scale layout..for some songs I also like the particular tone..but even then they are stiff to play..when I want to honk, its the Blues Harp for me..I like them better by far than the Special 20 or the Golden Melody.

I like the L.O. harps for the different minor tunings, but they aren't as fun to play..plus the L.O. harps need modification before playing if you have a mustache...ouch!!

..cool..I will try to dig out a clue for you.  ;D

..just grabbing a harp and playing it because it is fun is the best it gets, IMO..by doing that you get familiar enough with it to play a song you never tried before, and get it right the first time..when you get on down the road with this, there are some songs I can suggest to you that will teach you specific, fundamental, techniques that you can then use as versatile tools in your musical arsenal..

..I did mention a couple of things about that in my recent harmonica post on "From the Shadows"..you can hear some of the variety of techniques.

Meantime, I'm not going to be the one  to tell you that the harmonica of your current dreams is not possible..there are plenty of people out there who will do that.

..nope that isn't going to cross my lips..because I believe that it is always worth taking shots like that..

..that is why I suggest calling the company..spend some time ahead of time if you have to writing out what you want to say, and then talk to a person who can help you..they might say no, and then you might take a different tack, but I would press it to the limit before giving up on that.

Even if they say no..that might not be the last word, but the project could end up taking more effort and expense than its worth..

..in the end you might end up with 3 different flavors of Cm harp, and find yourself very happy.

..and as to the Tremolo issue..never bought one..never tried one..there are several playing techniques for producing tremolo when you want it, with a regular harp.

..haha..a friend of mine who is a great  harp player, when he wants tremolo he plays through a Mesa  Boogie, and uses the tremolo onboard the amp. ;D

Wyatt

www.psy-t.com/07-09-16-fluffypinkcircle-t.mp3

transposed as requested :)

...now to check out that tune you posted ;)

..OK..the L.O. Bm Harmonic Minor goes nicely with this version, so it is a safe bet that if you like what you hear when I record a bit for you, that you will be happy with the L.O. Cm Harmonic Minor, when the song is in Cm.

I will try to record and upload an example for you tomorrow.

Wyatt

Hi Psy-T,

OK..I recorded using a Bm harp along with your song transposed to Bm so you
can hear the sound of the Harmonic Minor Harp. So a Cm version will give you
comparable results when you write in Cm..

I hope that helps you find a solid place to start.

I posted the song here:

http://www.kara-moon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1084.msg8430#msg8430

..I used a sound shaping technique that Oren taught me for the guitar, on the harp this morning,
 and so I wanted to make sure he didn't miss it.

Wyatt