Kara-Moon Forum

I seem to be doing nothing but sad songs lately. Oh well {shrug}
I originally composed this tune in 1968 and played it on a home-made zither for a local talent contest. It didn't win anything :(

A few years ago I made a 'proper' recording and added a few bits to it, which was OK, but, as they say 'could have done better'. Now I've had another look at it, and applied some of the skills I've since learned.

As usual, comments welcome.

Will,

It's a pretty song,as you have a knack for expressing your experiences very well,but it sounds like you did everything live with your Fusion...so I don't know if this is still a preliminary refurb,maybe?
That is to say,it does not sound like a polished version & it needs to be run through a sequencer,as the lead does not mesh well with the chord progressions.

This is yet another song that deserves to be re-worked even further & if this is done,it will be contest-ready. ;) 8)

Cheers,

Thom

I think I agree with thom on this one.

There are some timing issues. I'm not going to say you have to redo this with a metronome, humanised timing is something that suits this track, but the timing could be a bit more tighter... At the moment it sounds a bit confused.

Hope you'll nail down another version to bring the ideas in here to full glory  ;)

fred

Thanks for you comments guys.

@Thom
All tracks were indeed recorded live, but using Zyn. + Rosegarden. not Fusion. The flute is a soundfont. One of the problems with working this way is that where instruments have very different attack times it becomes difficult to match them up. With some songs I can get round this by having a metronome running, and making the initial recording using just fast attack instruments, then changing and time-shifting later, but this doesn't work for a track like this as it tends to flatten the dynamics. I think I will work to make the support tracks line up better with the leads rather than the other way round.

@Frederick
Yes there are timing tweaks needed, but I don't follow what you mean by sounding confused. Can you elaborate on that for me?

After a very quick listen to this ....
I would really love to take some time and rework this piece with acoustic guitars, bass and *real* whistle ....
If you wouldn't mind ... and if I can make time ...  ::)
It's a lovely tune.
 ;)
James

I'd certainly be delighted to hear what you can make of this. Let me know what you need :-

Fred,

Welcome to the "Folderol Zone" and the wonderful world of artfully eccentric timing. Contrary to the usual musical inclination to attack the notes "on the beat", Will plays it like he hears it.
I've come to enjoy his approach, and it's allowed me begin looking at my own music from a less regimented point of view. What may initially sound "confused", becomes quite magical if you allow the ebb and flow of each instrument to have its place in the emotional tapestry of the composition.

Well, guess I'll have to try to open up my "rhytmical" mind a bit more. Maybe it indeed is a question of getting used to it, i got to admit that i didn't take the time to really get accustomed to the piece or the folderol style  ;D

BTW: my remark about sounding confused had to do with this timing issue, I found it a bit hard to get into the overall flow of the piece because of the changes/conflicts in timing between the different instruments etc. But that's a personal matter, and as said maybe a question about getting used to different rhytmical approaches.

fred

@Oren
Now see I got all sunburned again ::)
If I ever get rich and famous (oh yeah) can I put you on reserve as my PR agent :D

@Fred
OK I think I get what you're saying.

Some thoughts that may sound rubbish :P
With my more emotive pieces I often like to inject a sort of innocent hesitancy into the timing. A sort of 'what's round the corner?' then 'Oh yes, that's alright'. I've used that quite strongly in this melody, which makes lining up the support tracks a nightmare.

At the same time I'll often deliberately 'drag' the backing if it is slow attack string or synth. This also tends to give a more languid atmosphere. A particular example is at 00:43 where the strings are quite noticeably delayed, as well as being louder after having faded down a lot. The same happens at 01:07. Sometimes I go to far of course, so it's helpful for me to know!

I think I went a bit too far with the thin synth behind the flute verse, so I'll work more on that. However, with James on the case it might all change anyway ;)

As usual, just send me the chord chart and we'll take it from there.
Personally, I love the timing flaws. To me that's what makes it feel *live*.
I've never been able to even grasp the concept of quantization :o
 ;)
James

First this is a very good song.  I loved the flow and the soundscape you have created, very good indeed!

Secondly I’m in the Oren camp on this one.  I was not taken back by the quick and/or slow note attacks.  I love it when I think something is wrong but when I go back and listen again everything seems to fit.  That is what happened here.  Maybe I got used to it but I don’t think anything is really wrong here.  That may be because I think a lot of today’s music is over quantized and it’s refreshing to hear something that wasn’t.

Great job!

@offthewall
Chrods sent - chords too  ;D

@Mario
Thanks a lot for your comments.

I think I can now say my final answer is... there's no final answer ::)

... and there is always more to think about and try out.

Intriguing ..I knew at a "glance" that this had your hand on the wheel..

Lovely, thoughtful, bittersweet..

I am a total fan of human timing..I play all my synths by hand even though I am
not a great keyboard player, and I have always considered the subtle changes in
timing of my guitar tracks, (and I am very comfortable with the guitar), to be a
necessary and irreplaceable tool of creative expression.

So not only do I really dig your timing, but I also 'get' it.  ;D

Quite nice.

8)

Wyatt

Hi Will
I smiled at the comments on the 'Folderol zone' but that's all true.
I like this 'live' feel obtained human-feel-timing, this is how music should be imo and I'm sorry I can't play all the instruments live in my music but I must have sequenced parts  :-[
Another element from the Folderol-Zone is the dramatic/sad feel due to the chord progression.

After a 40-years journey this song come to my hear, and I really enjoyed it so much

Cheers

Thanks a lot for your thoughts Wyatt & L.R. I'm getting a really good vibe from the comments on this tune. It seems to be turning into a real 'Cinderella' composition :-

Well it seems I'm finally catching up with projects ... for the time being.

I think this is now the definitive version of this tune (although I'm always open to ideas/collaborations of course).

I've made some very small timing adjustments to the middle verse.
Done a remix changing the levels a little here-and-there.
Put the Zyn. section through JAMin for a bit of compression and some EQ.

I hope you like the changes.

 :o
This is wonderful, Will.
I'm sorry I haven't had time to get to this one yet ... but I will, eventually.
I couldn't miss out on a tune like this.
Superb mix.
 ;)
James

Yes, I agree, it is wonderfull !

k

Somehow the song has taken on a more contemplative flow... very engaging.

Thanks Guys. As always, I really appreciate your support, comments and suggestions.