Kara-Moon Forum

General & News => News & General Chat => Topic started by: kara on January 07, 2009, 03:36:09 PM



Title: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: kara on January 07, 2009, 03:36:09 PM
Or in musical terms how do you compose a song ? Do you start from a chord progression and then make a melody or the other way around ?

On most of our songs I work together with Azell, and we have no method  :o

As she is a solo player, sometimes she comes up with a melody played on here WX windcontroller and asks me to write the arrangement.
Sometimes I come with a chordprogression and give it to here to jam over it until she finds a melody that works with it.

I personnaly prefer method 2, basicaly because it takes here around 15 minutes to find a melody over a chordprogression, and it takes me 15 days to write an arrangement over here melody  ::) ;D

How about you?

k


Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: Marc JX8P on January 07, 2009, 03:41:04 PM
My own music isn't that melody oriented; normally I start out with a chord progression. This might also take the form of an arpeggio of those chords or just the root node, but I tend to work on the fundaments of harmony, sound and percussion first. And then wonder what kind of melody to put over that.


Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: offthewall on January 07, 2009, 04:17:06 PM
 :-\
I normally compose from a chord pattern first, then write the melody round it. The exception to this is on the rare occasions when I'm noodling on guitar or whistle and a strong melody appears. Then I reverse the process. I find this a little more difficult to achieve with success.
A problem I have at the moment, now that I'm trying to write songs with my LadyD, is that she is not comfortable with my song writing as my train of thought predictably goes to the style of melody that I can sing  :o ... which is extremely limited. In attempting to get her to come up with both lyrics and melody the stumbling block is that she does not want to get involved with *song construction*. It's causing a bit of a *block* in the writing system.  ::)
I'm going to have to find a way round this before my new-found vocalist goes *off the boil*  :-X

This could be a very interesting thread.
 ;)
James


Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: kara on January 07, 2009, 04:50:23 PM
:-\
I'm going to have to find a way round this before my new-found vocalist goes *off the boil*  :-X


I know exactly what you're talking about James, it took us years to actually work together on songs and find a 'common' base.
And yet, now still I have to avoid to funny chords with 'false' notes in it, as she calls it, you know those jazz extension like 13 :D

But you'll get there  8)

k


Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: Wyatt on January 07, 2009, 05:18:33 PM
I used to start with chord progressions. Then for a change, I found that sometimes I had more freedom starting with the melody.
 
Sometimes I start with a drum track.   I will often have a feeling for what I want to express in a song, and start hearing drum tracks in my head.

I will also often start out by hunting through hundreds of sounds for a synth pad patch, and just switch my head off and let my fingers play vagabond on the keyboard. This puts me 'outside-the-box', since keys are not my main instrument. Then I grab my Strat and it always seems to know how to surprise me with the stuff it comes up with.

Finally, I found that collabs have put me in many unusual and different situations that required different responses from me. At once frustrating and exhilarating, doing 20 in  5 months really did a lot for my creative flow.

8)

Wyatt


Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: folderol on January 07, 2009, 05:40:28 PM
Mostly I start with chord progressions, quite often played randomly on the keyboard until a few just seem to stick together. I then play through and extend what I have until there is a recognisable pattern. Next, I loop these until I think I can hear a melody. If it doesn't seem to go anywhere I'll save what I have and come back to it later - sometimes years later :o

The exceptions are the 3am calls where I wake up with a melody running round in my head. On these occasions I immediately go downstairs and fire up the system to record the melody - usually very badly! The following day I look at what I did and either develop it, or decide it's utter crap and quietly bury it.


Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: NeoN on January 07, 2009, 07:42:44 PM
Well, personally I got some specific song structures but I got no song writting method!
I never did...
Sometimes, I find myself scratching my guitar for fun and then
making that simple chord progression into a complete song.
Some other times, a melody comes into my mind and then make a song based on that melody..
 :)


Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: MarioD on January 07, 2009, 08:25:35 PM
I would say about 75% of my originals start with a chord progression.  I start with either my guitar, or synth (not my instrument so I have to think outside of the box) or Band-in-a-Box.

About 10% of my originals start with a melody.  The melody always comes from my guitar and/or synth.

The final 15% starts with a rhythm section.  Sometimes me just strumming on the guitar.  Sometimes I start with a drum track.  But most of the time I start with a synth rhythm track.  I play around until I find something I like, save it then jam with it.




Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: bvdp on January 08, 2009, 12:32:46 AM
Interesting discussion!

I find that I ususally have a short (4 or 5 note) riff in my mind. I'll then start to play with rhythms to find a suitable style. Then, I usually go in short (2 to 4) bar chunks creating the melody and chord changes.

After awhile I dump the whole mess and start over :)

But, seriously, I do think that the foundation of music is the rhythm (I know that some will argue the point, but that's fine). So, without a drum and/or chords it doesn't mean much.

I don't do lyrical stuff, and I'm quite sure that having words to deal with would complicate things.

I should add that I don't start to play with MMA on a new song until I have at least 8 to 16 bars roughed out. At that point I find it really helps me to use the automatic stuff to verify chord changes ... to easy otherwise to fake them on the keyboard and end up with serious problems a day or so later.


Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: Martin E on January 08, 2009, 08:35:12 AM
I have more of a singer/songwriter method I guess which means the chord progression and melody are usually created simultameously. Sometimes the chord progression dictates the melody and sometimes it's the other way round. My songwriting isn't focused on rhythm though I agree it's an important foundation. Often when I have a song idea the choice of a rhythm somtimes changes the song radically.


Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: Laguna Rising on January 17, 2009, 12:27:41 PM
 :-\ mmmhh... both ways
I'd say :
60 % chords first
40 % start with a melody

cheers


Title: Re: What is first the chicken or the egg ?
Post by: botma on March 18, 2009, 12:04:45 PM
I start with words, melody then chords... What is nice is, you can start any where you please. Like the click-idy-clack of the railroad tracks...