Kara-Moon Forum

Although I am really excited about Sonar X2 from what I've researched,I am equally horrified by some of the Sonar-user's struggles with the various bugs that seem to be inherent with the X2 series.
In fact,some really disturbing sh*t...such as the issues I've experienced with Acoustica Mixcraft 6.  :-[

One KVR member,recently had this to say about Sonar X2 Producer; http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388404

Of course I realize,that not every Sonar user goes through this,but then...not every Acoustica Mixcraft 6 user went through what I did(despite the fact that I have a powerful PC & that I had done everything possible to resolve my issues,before I discarded that program).

KVR...has some of the most seasoned & experienced PC users I've seen on the internet,which is what really disturbs me...because based on what I've read,Sonar X2 is just as much of a instable train-wreck as the Acoustica...at least for some individuals and the issues don't seem to be related to what type of PC power you're running...so much as Sonar just being an instable program that is very difficult to get under control.

@Mario....care to give your thoughts...please?

By the way...the general consensus among Sonar users,is that the reasoning behind Cakewalk's summer sale on their X2 upgrades,is that the X3 version is right around the corner & that people are hopeful that the X3 update will correct all of the bugs. :-\

I think Sonar has been around for at least 20 years...so then...what..Cakewalk can't get their bugs sorted out after all this time?Or is it a matter of the Sonar user's incessant demands for more powerful upgrades,that has Sonar overloaded...resulting in bugs galore?

I have this thought...both Acoustica and Sonar are reasonably priced DAW's with video support capabilities...could this feature be contributing to their instability?

What about Cubase & Digital Performer?They both have video support as well...any instability issues there..I wonder?Is running audio & video in a single DAW,too much for the average PC user with limit budgets?

Does one have to have a $10,000 industrial grade PC,just to run programs like this smoothly?

Incidentally,some Sonar users have concluded...that the stability of Sonar,is contingent upon an individual's particular computer system....though no one seems to have it down to a science,nor can they tell specifically,what type of system one needs...as it seems to be a crap-shoot.

With that in mind,I am in the process of re-downloading the demo,on my other PC & upon the installation,I will run the program under the administration &  disable my security programs during the process.

Hopefully upon testing this demo,I will be able to determine whether or not I can use this program without any serious mishaps or to see if this software is usable at all,with my PC set up. :-\

Hi Thom,

There are some people having a ton of problems with Sonar X2.  After you DL the demo check to make sure that you have X2a.  If not also DL the X2a upgrade; I think you can do that with a demo but I’m not sure.

My experience with Sonar has been a good one but there are some things that I don’t touch.  I let you know them in a second.

Although Cakewalk has been around for ages but when it introduced X1 it was a complete rewrite.  Consequently there were a ton of bugs.  Many have been squashed with X1a,b,c,d, X2 and X2a.

Many are having problems because they don’t know how to use Sonar.  Take the pitch correction V-Vocal for example.  You may not be able to do a whole track at once with it, as many times that will crash Sonar.  Small sections works if you bounce the correction to a track then move onto the next section.  (You will not have to worry about this as V-Vocal does not come with the Essential version. That said some of the potential problems you will not encounter as Essentials doesn’t come with those plugins or synths.)

Also be slow and follow the install directions to a tee.  Many potential problems will be eliminated if you do exactly what the install instructions tell you to do.

Two big problems that you will encounter are automation and take lanes.  Both good ideas but they were half-assed implemented. I do not use either because everyone, including me, is having problems with them.  Fortunately there are work arounds.  You do not need take lanes. You can either punch in and punch out or record takes on new tracks.  You also do not need automation lanes as all you do is to record your automation in the track with sound-on-sound then bounce the track.  Both of these techniques are old school but they work.

There is a ton of information at the Cakewalk forums.  There are also a lot of free how to use Cakewalk videos on their site also.

One final note and that is be sure to look at the manual.  Sonar has a very steep learning curve for a new user.   Check the forums for help but if you don’t read the manual you will get a read the f%%^^ing manual from a couple of old pros.  Also I am here to help.

Good luck and let me know how things are progressing.

Ps an after though. You should get Scott R. Garrigus’s “SonarX2 Power!” book if you really want to get into Sonar.  Every Sonar upgrade I get, which isn’t very many I might add, I get these power books.  They explain everything much better than the manual. 

Hey Mario,

As a general & strict rule,I don't ever touch pitch correction tools,so the V-Vocal is a non sequitur for me.

I just installed the demo on my other PC and no problems there.

As for book tutorials,well..with my ADHD,I find reading too tedious...so if I end up purchasing tutorials,it's going to be video instructions(regardless of the cost)...if I run into a brick wall.

Thus far,I set up my midi controller keyboard...but simply trying to add a VST instrument track(the ones included with the download),is ridiculously confusing(as my screenshots below will illustrate).

I'm currently looking through a YouTube tutorial on X2 Producer that was made by a Sonar user(not affiliated with Cakewalk)..but have made no progress in this area and at this point,I think I may have an easier time trying to import 3rd party VST's....but then again(according to the error message)...maybe not anytime soon.

I don't know if I'll have any more sorted out before my copy of X2 Essential gets here...but I think the most helpful thing I can do for myself when I install my purchase,is to contact Sweetwater.com(as they have remote access to my PC) and this has bailed me out of trouble on a couple of occasions with other software.

Thanks for the info,

-Thom   By the way,the double screenshot file,indicates a video screenshot from the tutorial(which is to the right)and then a screenshot from my PC(to the left).

Like I said Thom Sonar has a very steep learning curve.  I would suggest you go to the Cakewalk site and look at some of their vids first.  They range from the first time user vids to the experienced users.

It will not matter if you use Cakewalk’s VSTis or 3rd party ones the process is the same. Each soft synth needs at least one midi track to run it. Many of the new VSTis can have either up to 16 different midi tracks driving 16 different sounds or a number of different tracks driving the same sounds.

Let’s say the softsynth is the TTS-1.   The following picture will show you the correct procedure.

If your screen doesn’t look like mine then you have a different screen set.  Press the number 2 to get the identical screen set as mine.  Sonar has 10 different screen sets which are just different views of the same information.  This is so that you can have specialized views for different types of work.

 One word of caution, as I have said Sonar is a very in-depth DAW.  In such there are many ways to do the same thing and a ton of things to learn.  If one thinks they can just turn it on and fly then one is terribly mistaken.  Learning Sonar is like learning a new instrument in that you have to either read or view the vids then practice what you have learned.  Thom, I mean no offense by this.  I had a hard time coming to grips with Sonar but now I have it set up so it enhances my workflow.  I can do things very quickly and easily now but it took a while to get here.  I have used Cakewalk’s products for years now and still today I watch the vids or read the books and I’m still learning what Sonar can do.

I hope this helps.

Mario,

I am in the process of downloading a Cakewalk video tutorial called; Sonar X2 explained...which is 5 hours & seems like a great deal for $24.95(as compared to $34.95 for the book)..which seems like a ridiculous price for a book,but I suppose the book as more in depth info than that of the videos.
Not long after I paid for this video,I went back to the online store and noticed that just below the download I bought,there's another X2 tutorial called SWA Complete Sonar X2 and not only does it have 4 more hours of video,it's also $5 less!

Hopefully what I purchased will suffice and besides,what I am downloading now is just over a gigabyte in size and the other download is roughly double that size...which could give me problems,because anything over a GB in size,I run the risk of a network timeout or a corrupted file.

All of this tutorial stuff may get expensive over time,because there's a whole library of videos...but I had to go through the same thing when I bought Reason 4(this was my first DAW) and I bought it from Ask Video and that tutorial cost $50!

As for what I had read about some folks claiming that Sonar is not very receptive to 3rd party VST's...well it's pretty much hogwash I think,because depending on who's claims you read on the various forums,each person has a different story.

To put a finer point on it,none of my other DAW's could host some of the TubeOhm's synths,but Sonar is more friendly towards these VST's....I of course,don't have any VST's running as of yet,but at least more Of TubeOhm's stuff is showing up in Sonar(in the VST folder section to the left of the screen).


Thanks again,

-Thom

Thom,

The only issues I have had with VSTs and VSTis are with some of the 32 bit ones; note I am running a 64bit Win7 Pro system. Many are automatically wrapped with Bitmap (I think that is what Sonar calls it) while J-Bridge wraps a lot others.  But from now on I am only going to DL 64 bit VSTs and VSTis.  I have had no problems with them.

Amen.  As a side note, the same exact thing can be said of Cubase.  It's not just a program you pick up, start messing with, and master in a couple hours, days, weeks, or even months.  It takes study, experimentation, patience, and years to really get a grasp on it.  I've become a regular contributor in the Cubase forums to help people with problems.  It's remarkable how many people's problems are due to lack of understanding of the program, and how quick they are to blame the developer, or assume it's a bug.  Not to say there aren't any bugs.  Of course there are, but there are far fewer than many people think.

Wow...what have I gotten myself into?I know that I should ignore most of what I read,with regard to Sonar-user grievances..but the user complaints are incredibly high in number & persistent..both at KVR & the Cakewalk forums...

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388711

With regard to the Cakewalk forum,all I did..was merely inquire about Sonar's Z3TA+ classic synth & the difference between it,& the latest update and then my thread turns into flaming-user complaint department,where people are venting out their anger over some "stability" issues with the Z3TA+2 synth. ::)

 http://forum.cakewalk.com/Questions-About-Sonar-Z3TA-Synth-m2869728.aspx#2869763

Thom, as you found out there are some big complainers over there!  If have been spoiled by this site and PGMusic’s site.

My personal experience with SonarX1 Studio, X1a, b, c, and d as well as Sonar X2 Pro and X2a have been very positive.  My personal experience with Z3TA 1, 1.5 and 2 also have been very good, that is no crashes or freezes. Although I am not a heavy user of it I have made some patch mods that worked fine.

As I have noted before Roland/Cakewalk does have some good ideas but the implementation of some are very poor, making them useless IMO.  Lanes are a prefect example.  But as I have said there are work arounds.

I think a lot of problems that people are having are with their computer systems and not Sonar.  Things like a slow CPU, not enough ram, not up to date audio interface, old video drivers or any drivers for that matter, etc are the main causes.  The other main cause is people trying to use those poorly implemented parts of the program. Take and automation lanes don’t work as they should so quit trying to use them!

PS – watch the vids you purchased, practiced what you have learned and you will be fine.  Personally I have yet to ask a question over on their forum.  Way to much Sonar bashing for me!

Mario,

The thread I started on KVR(the link in my previous post),was not intended to be anything other than me just informing people of Sonar's August sale on the X2 line(as just a courtesy to others),because I happened to know about the sale before word got out.

I thought perhaps that some folks would be interested,is all...but instead,all hell breaks loose and it turns into an unofficial complaint department for Sonar X2! ::)

On the Cakewalk forum,my thread got hijacked once again & honestly...I sympathize a bit with some people's grievances to a degree,but the outpouring of Sonar bashing is insane.

The funny thing is,that on the Acoustica Mixcraft forum,I was having nothing but problems with Mixcraft and people always wanted to blame my issues on hardware & that I should upgrade my DVD drive..RAM & do crazy modifications to my PC I have never heard of anyone doing before.
People though I was nuts & incredibly naive about computers,because of my complaints and yet,the instability of Mixcraft was so severe,it was beyond fixing...despite the fact that 90% of the time I used it,I was troubleshooting,contacting tech support countless times and spending a great deal of time on the Mixcraft forum.

The typical Mixcraft user,does not have any more PC knowledge than myself(if even that much),& yet,it seems that most Mixcraft users love their DAW's & they're working fine...supposedly.

As I have discovered,with my pathetically arcane,jalopy-of-a-computer that I have.. ::)..Mixcraft only works well if I had limited myself to just the included VST's of Mixcraft(& avoid the ones with known instability issues)..but once I started to ad VST's like Alchemy & Kontakt,it would crash every time(& yet others claims that they use equally CPU intensive VST's as myself and they have no problems).

Realistically,I don't expect Sonar to be as stable as my Presonus S1 or Reason Daw's..but I also can't imagine any DAW being as unstable as Mixcraft.

Just some afterthoughts...I'm not really worried about the Z3TA+ Classic(that comes with my copy of X2 Studio,which is due to arrive tomorrow)..but I am debating on whether or not to eventually buy the $49 upgrade  :-\ ...I mean,an extra $49 for basically just an additional $1000 presets?I think I'd rather customize my own,for free.
From what I've observed online,the Z3TA is a very deep synth & I think I will be spending quite a bit of time on it.  8)

As for working with the demo...well..I uninstalled it 3 days ago,because I didn't want to get too attached to some features that I wouldn't of had(as it were),when I originally placed a pre-order for X2 Essential.
The day before last,I checked Sweetwater's website and discovered that Essential & Studio versions of X2 are half price!Hence the reason I opted for the Studio version.
Since X2 Studio was originally $200,I was wondering why I got stuck with LE versions of Dimension & Rapture?Oh well...if the upgrades are reasonable,I may splurge..one day.
The thing that's a little irritating to me,is that Cakewalk had a sale on Rapture as a plug-in and it was only $20 for the full version.Still though,with what I paid for Studio with Cakewalk's August sale,I can do no wrong,I think.
It just may turn out to be,that eventually upgrading to the X3 version(which seems to be upcoming soon),may be the way to go...so I will hold off on buying any upgrades for X2,until version X3 is released.

Thom, you are right in saving your money on the Z3TA upgrade.  I bought it and I don’t think it is worth the $49.  You can program the software to get those sounds if you really try.  Personally I just do a few simple mods, I don’t programs original sounds, at least not yet.  Like you said it is a very powerful and programmable softsynth.

I had Studio for over a year.  They offered me an upgrade to Pro for $50 so I upgraded. Studio is just as powerful as Pro and the only differences are the softsynths and Pro Channel.  I am not a big fan of Pro Channel.  I use other effects in the FX bin.

I don’t think that you will care for Dimension.  The Pro version only differs I believe in the number of patches you get.  I find most all of these patches are very weak compared to Kontakt’s sounds, Kontakt’s third party sounds and the other synths that I have.  I believe you will find the same thing.

Rapture is a different story.  I think you will like this one.  Just hold tight on an upgrade as Cakewalk/Roland has had a number of sales lately.  It will probably go on sale again for $20.  I have seen a number of sales repeated lately.

Upgrades are free for Sonar.  Be sure to get the X2a upgrade if yours doesn’t come with it.  It fixes quite a few bugs.

Good luck.

Mario,

I browsed through the rather extensive sound libraries of Digital Sound Factory for Dimension & most of them don't really blow my skirt up...except for perhaps,the Vol.5 Orchestral Expansion.

It's difficult to determine the quality of this software,because the instruments are not demonstrated separately...but Digital Sound Factory does give you the option for a full refund,so it seems worth a try.

I love Kontakt's quality in general,but I've never been able to install my Komplete 6 on my other PC,NI support is terrible and although I do have Kontakt 4 on my other PC,it's only because it came with a bass instrument module that I bought from Big Fish Audio & they were wonderful about helping me install it.
Still though...my BASiS module is buggy,expensive & not the most comprehensive bass VST I've worked with,so I don't know if I will ever buy anything more for Kontakt and as I've said in the past,NI's licensing issues have been the most difficult to deal with,in my experience.

Toontrack makes amazing VST modules and aside from drums,they have keys & vocal libraries...so if they ever come out with bass & or orchestral stuff,I won't hesitate to buy from them again,because their product support is very good. 

Aside from the VST module I spoke of,I don't think I will ever be adding additional Cakewalk products to my Sonar...unless of course,they come up with something ground-breaking.


-Thom

Mario,

I updated my Studio to the X2a version and now the transport controls on my keyboard do not work.I also have 23 midi effects that are missing,as the attachment will illustrate.

Aside from all that,none of my 3rd party VST's are showing up in this DAW.I think before I go to the Cakewalk forum for help,I will first call Sweetwater and have them take a look at my PC via their remote access program...because I'm afraid that people on the forum,will tell me to uninstall everything...or well...who knows what they'll advise me to do.


-Thom

By the way...both my Dimension and Rapture modules are completely empty & I tried dragging and dropping everything manually into Rapture,but it won't save the content.

Thom, did you register the VSTis and effects with Sonar?  You must do this in order to see them. Go to Utilities/cakewalk plug-in manager then scan.  You may have to tell Sonar where to look for these under options in the plug-in manager.

Here is a copy of my plug-in options: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97281321/plugin.JPG

Good luck and let me know if I can help.

I registered my Sonar Studio DAW,but...are you saying that some of the effects & instruments have to be registered separately??Isn't it bad enough that I can't ever sell this software and that I can't run this DAW on more than one PC at a time?
What is wrong with these companies?

No Thom that is not what I meant, I meant for Sonar to use plug-ins it must know where they are. When you use the plug-in manager it tells Sonar to register them so it knows where they are.  Register may be a poor choice of words here, locate may have been better.  Sorry if I confused you!

Sonar, like a lot of pro DAWS is extremely powerful.  They can be extremely stupid at times. You have to tell them where things are.  For every plug-in you add you must run the plug-in manager again for it to find it. Fortunately you can tell Sonar to ignore the ones that are already registered/located.

I hope this helps.

Thanks Mario....I'll look into it tomorrow...as now,I'm really burnt out on this stuff.I think perhaps,it was the demo I had on my PC..because during the installation,it paused for a second,because it detected that I previously had the demo installed...but I had completely uninstalled it before I ran the new disc. ??? ::) :P >:( :-\ :-[

I think having had the X2 Producer demo installed on my PC has caused me a lot of problems,as even though I had uninstalled it beforehand,it almost certainly caused me trouble with my Studio version & the X2a update just made matters worse for me.

When I fired it up this morning,the Pentagon synth was missing & I was unable to retrieve it.

The only thing left for me to do,is to contact Sweetwater tomorrow and have them run through my file system on my PC,with their remote access program.

This is the main reason why I decided to buy Sonar,via Sweetwater..because without them I would have wasted my money on Sonar(as this retailer has bailed me out of trouble,in similar situations).

I knew it was only a matter of time,that I would run into a problem with Sonar(the video tutorials have been great,but those instructions don't include troubleshooting tips).

Thom, most programs when uninstalled leave crap behind in the registry.  After uninstalling a program I run the free Ccleaner program http://ccleaner.softm8.com/?gclid=CJrW78Lg9rgCFUqY4Aod6GoAGA

I run the cleaner to discard all of the temp files and I also run the registry cleaner.  The program will ask you to back up your registry prior to discarding the crap in the registry.  I always say yes.  I have never had a problem with this registry cleaner.

Is your music computer on line?  Installing a program with an anti-virus or anti-spyware program running may cause problems.  Using a DAW with anything running in the back ground like those anti programs will cause problems.  Just a thought.  Is your system tweaked for DAW use?  If not then that may help. There is some good information on that on line, just google/bing tweaking a computer for DAW use, or something like that.

It’s almost if not impossible to have a troubleshooting video.  There are so many various computer configurations that it would be impossible!  Each system has to be tweaked individually.  There are some basic guide lines, see above, but each system is different.

PS - are you running a 32 bit or a 64 bit system?

As I've mentioned on many occasions,I have two computers.One is a Compaq PC and I only have Presonus S1 on it.This PC is reserved for all of my miscellaneous downloading,so I need my IObit Anti-Malware running at all times.

My 2nd computer,is my Cyberpower gaming PC,which has the 6-core processor,1TB HD and 8GB of RAM and this of course,is my main DAW PC.
I have another instance of Presonus S1 on it,as well as Reason 7 and now my Sonar Studio X2a.I am connected to the internet on this one as well(for authentication purposes,to launch Presonus & Reason)...but I only have Windows Security Essentials on it,nothing more.

Before I start messing around with registry cleaners & such,I will first contact Sweetwater and have them take a look at my PC with their remote access program.
It's an amazing method of tech support,because it's tantamount to having a tech-guy right there with you,in your studio.

I have Windows 7 64 bit & I'm running the 32 bit version of Sonar Studio X2a.


Thanks again for all of your advice.

By the way...about the Z3TA+ Classic..well...before I installed my Studio version,I had no idea that the Classic version of this synth would be so scaled down,in terms of size and controls.
From what I've tinkered with so far in Sonar,I think Z3TA is Cakewalk's best synth,& maybe the only module in Sonar that's worth upgrading.That being said,if I chose to even bother utilizing this synth again,I will go for the upgrade.

I think you're right about Dimension not being as good a sample engine as Kontakt,so I will wait and see what happens with the future X3 version.

Thom, the first thing I would suggest doing is to run the 64 bit bit version of Sonar.  The 32 bit version can only access a max of 3 gigs of ram.  Heavy duty DAWs like Sonar, probably Cubase and others, work best with more ram.  They also run better when they are the only program that uses the computer clock. 

You are probably using the 32 bit machine so you can keep some of your 32 bit VSTis and plug-ins.  It may be time to move on.  I tried some of the 32 bit VSTis and plug-ins on the 64 bit version and many didn’t work, even when wrapped.  I moved on and I don’t miss them at all anymore.  Most will have to convert to 64 bit or be left behind.  I do not buy any 32 bit stuff anymore.

The ram comes into play when using the various VSTis.  Many of Sonar’s VSTis are heavy users of ram and as you add more tracks to your songs Sonar will need more ram.  With only 3 gigs max that doesn’t leave much room to spare, especially when other background programs are loaded into ram.

The clock comes into play when you are using Sonar and another program interrupts it by using the clock.  This is true with any program that uses the internet, like your antivirus. 

There are a lot of sites that can help you set up your Win 7 for DAW work: http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.&fp=ae1d97b68cec209d&q=tweaking+win7+for+a+DAW

You might want to look at some of these tweaks as they can stabilize a DAW machine.

Mario,

I appreciate all of your troubleshooting ideas,but I had Sweetwater walk me through Sonar this morning & as it turns out,it was just a simple matter of disabling the user account control.
I could have easily avoided all this mess by just running Sonar as an administrator(if I had thought of that)...but changing the control settings is better and as a result,everything is running smoothly.
This is why I wanted to wait & consult with Sweetwater first,before going crazy with exploring the vast realm of possible causes.

As for abandoning the use of Sonar in it's 32 bit version and discarding the utilization of my 32bit VST's...well,I'm trying to keep my transient DAW use down to a minimum,by pooling most of my sounds into a single DAW session.

Sonar is more freeware-friendly and besides,I shelled out quite a bit of coin,in my various 32 bit VST purchases,so I am going to facilitate them as much as possible.

I will probably install the 64 bit version of Sonar as well...but I'm not sure that it is all that necessary,at this point.


-Thom  

Oh yes, that terrible often intruding UAC.  I keep forgetting about that as I turned mine off the day I brought my computer home!

I’m glad everything is working ok for you.  I would suggest that you install the 64 bit version now that you know about the UAC/administrator thing.  Eventually all will be 64 bit.

Have fun with Sonar.

Just when I thought everything was green-lighted in Sonar,I hit a brick wall..in terms of video importing.When I tried to load mpeg 2,I got nothing but a small,blank & grey screen.
When I tried to import MOV(which is supposed to be a highly compatible format),all I get,is an error message. ??? Acoustica Mixcraft 6 was a ridiculously buggy DAW...but at least the video import was simple & usable.

Naturally,I figured I am doing something wrong...but what?I don't understand how importing video,requires a special knowledge of Sonar,in order to pull it off. :-\

Thom, I don’t think that Sonar 2x can import MPEG2 files.  I just tried it on mine and I could not do it.  I kept getting a non-compatible type error message. They are up to MPEG4 now so 2 is an old format.  However there are converters, some free I think, that can change them to the correct format.  Here is a couple of Cakewalk docs explaining what can be imported.

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X2&Lang=EN&Req=Dialogs2.010.html

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X2&Lang=EN&Req=Tutorial8.2.html

Sonar can do MOVs but you must have Quicktime installed: http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X2&Lang=EN&Req=Playback.39.html

I hope this helps.

Mario,

Mpeg 4 does work in Sonar(in that the video does appear),but as it states on Cakewalk's website,some videos will not produce video thumbnails in the track view area.
Yeah...it's great having a separate video window handy,but if I can't cut & paste the video,what's the point?Assuming that I haven't overlooked some important detail,I think Sonar's video portion of the DAW is archaic and a total waste...because Sonar's video support is the primary reason I bought this DAW in the first place.

Don't get me wrong,as I don't want to come across as a Sonar basher(because in fact,Sonar has some brilliant functionality & a very efficient layout with an immense amount of flexibility)...but Sonar's video functionality is very poor,it seems.

According to Cakewalk,this is their reason for the absence of video thumbnails in the track lane; "Some Windows Media videos do not report their frame rate to SONAR. SONAR can play these files, but cannot create thumbnails from them,so no thumbnails appear in the Thumbnail pane."
This is no valid excuse for why some videos do not appear as thumbnails,because my Mixcraft 6 DAW displayed video thumbnails with each and every video I imported into it!

If there is some way to cut & paste videos in Sonar,I haven't found it yet....but I have a terrible feeling that it's not possible,in which case Cakewalk should never have implemented video functionality to begin with,in my opinion.

Not too many DAW's support video,& the few budget DAW's that support video have some crippling shortcomings in one way or another and I'm assuming that if I want the video functionality I seek,it appears that I will have to spend a fortune on Digital Performer or some high end version of Cubase.

The way that I have always worked up until recently,is that I used my Sony Vegas Movie Studio to do all of the cutting and pasting of a video(before) I wrote the music and then after my video editing was done,I then wrote my compositions to fit the video clips I had made.
In order for everything to be synced up properly,I was forced to keep the tempo at 120 bpm's...so that the minutes & seconds of the video,matched the time/bar in my DAW.

I can't go on like this,to where I am constantly buying new DAW's,in an effort to accommodate my music video hobby.

If you've done any video work in Sonar,I'd really like your thoughts on this matter.

Thanks once again,for all of you help.


-Thom

Thom, I don’t use video in any form on any product.  Video is something that I don’t do so I am really no help in this area.  BUT if you send me a short MPEG4 I will gladly see what I can learn for you.  At this stage of the game I may have a little more experience with Sonar so maybe I can find something out for you.  You know my email.  Just be sure you put your name and the vid name on the subject line so that I know it’s from you.

You have hit on one of my really sore spots when it comes to DAWs and other software come to think about it. They all try to be all encompassing and try to do a little of everything instead of concentrating on their core function. Both Sonar and Band-in-a-Box have printing but neither are good printing functions.  Sonar has one of the worst printing functions I have ever come across. Band-in-a-Box’s is at least usable.  Both forums have improve printing functions being constantly added to the improve wish lists.  MP3 burning is another one, how many half-assed MP3 burning programs do I need?  As I have stated in the past Sonar has extremely poor implementation of take lanes, auto-snap and now you are telling me video. These are things that other less expensive programs can easily do.  It looks like they are playing catch up and doing a poor job of it.  I have heard/read that other DAWs are running into the same problem. These problems are not showstoppers for me as I know the work arounds but others are screaming that if it is there it should work.  I agree with them!

I am not bashing Sonar.  It is a very powerful audio recorder and midi sequencer with some high quality effects.  That is what I look for in a DAW.

Sorry to rant and rave!  Like I said if you would like me to look at a short video I will gladly try to help you out.  I would learn something also.

Amen to that...

Thom, I'm confused.  Are you hoping that you can actually cut and assemble your video inside your DAW and then export that video with music directly from the DAW?  Not even Cubase can do that.  Cubase can import a video (although like Sonar, it needs to be a MOV/MP4 video, so in some instance transcoding video before I import it into Cubase is just what I have to do), and you can cut it up and play back different parts of it in whatever sequence you want, but it has no ability to actually export the results of your cuts into a new video file with your music added onto it.  Maybe Sonar CAN do that, but I doubt it.  A DAW is for music creation, not for video editing. 

What I end up doing when creating music for video is going back and forth.  I either create video first in Final Cut Pro, and then bring it into my DAW and start writing music to it.  Then when I get a certain amount done, I then go back into Final Cut Pro, bring in the music I created and then cut the video to the music.  Then I export the video again, bring it back into Cubase, and keep working on fine tuning the music, and I'll go through this cycle as many times as I need to until the music and video are done--with the final export marrying music and video being done in Final Cut Pro.  It works great because I'm using each program according to it's strengths.  You can do the same with Vegas.

Anyway, my point is what it always is... learn to use the stuff you HAVE (including learning to set up your computer properly, and installing things properly, REALLY understanding what the difference is between video codecs and video wrappers are, and knowing what your DAW really requires) rather than looking for solutions in and spending more and more money on other programs, DAWs, or plug-ins.    Your money would be better spent on educating yourself on the tools you have rather than going out and buying more tools.  Just my opinion.  It's frustrating to try and help you Thom.  It happens too often that you may acknowledge my, Mario's, Oren's, Marc's help, and anyone else who takes the time to try and help you, but then you'll promptly ignore it while you systematically bash the software tools and developers that we and millions of others use successfully every day.

Seriously, I want you to find what you want.  I want you to be successful.  This goes much deeper than just installation issues, or a perceived lack of features and support, though.

Mario,

I've been doing a lot of thinking since I wrote my rant last night and perhaps,it wasn't realistic of me,to expect so much out of Sonar.All things considered,I don't think it's fair for me to be upset about the limitations of Sonar's video functions.
Yeah...Mixcraft 6 does have a cut & paste feature & video thumbnails,but these are the only advantages and the rest of the DAW is very poor in all other areas...that being said,that DAW is useless.

In the case of Sonar,I have found it to be very stable,once it's all configured properly and even with the inclusion of video,it still runs like a champ.
Come to think about it,it's better that I do all of my cutting & pasting in my Sony Vegas Studio,because there,I have all of the customization that I need and then having the video run within Sonar,is much easier than running it outside of the DAW,because it only requires one play button & all of the start & stop points remain in sync and that's the most important thing.

Thanks for your offer,but I should do just fine as things are.By the way...what is half-assed about Sonar's MP3 function?I certainly don't need another in-DAW MP3 converter...but as long as it's there,I may as well take advantage of it...for it's convenience...unless of course,it's a problem..in some way?Just curious.

Scott,

My whole objective,was to try and keep myself from bouncing around from one program to another,when I am working with video.Believe it or not,Acoustica Mixcraft 6 allows you to not only edit your videos,but you can also export the edited material.
If only Acoustica would focus on a rewrite of the program to make it more stable and increase their production budget to do so,then they would really be onto something viable and I think people would be happier to pay a bit more for the improvements...but Acoustica's mission,has always seemed to be about keeping it as cheap as possible.

I concede,that it wasn't a good idea for me to assume that Sonar could function in the same manner in the area of video as Mixcraft...but then,your claim that it's highly probable that no DAW can export edited video,is also an assumption...when in fact,Mixcraft has this capability.

By the way,I do know my Reason,Presonus and Sony Vegas programs well enough...but that knowledge won't change the fact that I cannot do both audio & video editing in a single DAW successfully.

Perhaps there is no video editing/export functionality in Digital Performer either,but under no circumstances,did I ever plan on buying DP...because regardless of whatever DP's abilities may be,it not worth the expense.

So let me get this straight,according to you,it's okay for Mario to complain about the lackluster printing,MP3 conversion & for him to agree with my disappointment with Sonar's video limitations...but if I express any disappointment at all,it always a result of me spouting unsubstantiated rhetoric..because I don't have sufficient knowledge of anything I own?
So in effect,I am a Sonar basher??Did I condemn Sonar & vow never to use it again?No,I did not.

You may be the reigning,consummate professional of this forum and most certainly a seasoned Cubase user & a top flight vocalist,but you fail to take into account,that as an instrumentalist more than anything else,I have different needs/wants than you do and with your income,you can go directly to the higher end gear/programs to get what you want..with little debate over it.

I think we're all in agreement here,that video editing is best left to video-specific software...however though,at no time,did I ever expect Sonar or any other program,to do everything that Sony Vegas Studio does..but rather,that I was expecting some basic video editing functions.
Sonar has many video formats they support,according to their product sheet..but they don't specify which type of MPEG to use,so naturally,one would think that all MPEG levels would be supported.
It's been my experience,that if a particular format isn't supported,it simple won't appear..but in the case of the MPEG 2,it does show some signs of being imported,but yet,it doesn't work.

Yeah...I have had Sonar for only a few days,but I spent weeks researching and since I've owned it,I've spent several hours with it for a few days and have viewed tutorials on it,but even still,I don't have the right to complain at all?

You don't play live,correct?How would you feel if I busted your chops,as to why you spent $3600 on a hardware keyboard,rather than just using that money to buy a midi controller keyboard and some software?

Yeah...I've spent a lot of money in the past on hardware keyboards,but most of them I got a lot of use out of them...but as I advanced in my recording skills and transitioned to software workstations,hardware(for the most part),became obsolete.

Since you've obviously lead a peerless life of exemplary behaviour & have consistently made the wisest product choices with your extraordinary foresight for what always suited you best,I guess I can't expect any understanding from you,for the masses if at times,need to take risks,in order to determine what gear works for them the most.

I'll admit,that I became too emotional over my integration issues between my Yamaha MOX6 & Cubase AI5...but then,you've never had to contend with either product,so you know very little of what I was dealing with.
I suppose though,that will be something you will always hold over my head.

You are frustrated with me?Well...as it happens,I find your comments frustrating & at this point,I am very irritated with you and I really don't want your help,nor do I want to be chastised for anything I've said in this thread.

In fact,this thread has reached it's conclusion as far as I'm concerned,as I am not going to fence with you over anything,from this point onward.
I have nothing more to say to you,so you go your way & I'll go mine & we'll just ignore one another,so please...keep your opinions to yourself,because I've had my fill of them.

In fact,if I have anything more to discuss with Mario,it will be via e-mail.


-Thom

 

Thom, I just got through looking for video in Sonar in my power book and the docs.  You can export video with or without your audio tracks.  You can input video IF you have  the correct codec to do it so maybe you can get the MPEG2 to work with the right codec, don’t know.  This is getting into high tech stuff so be careful.  BUT you can not edit video in Sonar.

The MP3 problems are the same as in previous versions of Sonar; I just tried it for the first time.  You have to purchase the MP3 codec to get it to work. I have Audacity and the free Lame codec and that works great.  You may be able to use Lame in Sonar, don’t know.  I don’t mess with things that are working perfectly!