Kara-Moon Forum

Developers & Technology => Musical MIDI Accompaniment (MMA) => Topic started by: david on July 26, 2007, 07:26:14 AM

Title: Impro-visor
Post by: david on July 26, 2007, 07:26:14 AM
I've found this program, Impro-visor (http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~keller/jazz/improvisor/)

It looks wonderful!
Bob, you have now a serious competitor ;-)



Title: Re: Impro-visor
Post by: kara on July 26, 2007, 08:09:26 AM
it looks nice for a start, not sure if that is an advantage; I like the text interface of MMA. Once you know the MMA syntax you can work very fast.

browsing trough the tutorial, it looks to me that is very oriented to education.

A shame I realy don't have the time to test this, i'm curious how well it works.

And Bob, competition is allways good :)


Title: Re: Impro-visor
Post by: bvdp on July 26, 2007, 04:56:26 PM
'm away for a week, but I'll have a look when I get back. Honesly, if it's better than MMA I'll be glad to use it ... or, perhaps we can borrow some ideas and incorporate them.

Kara is right about competition :)

Title: Re: Impro-visor
Post by: kara on August 03, 2007, 05:40:08 PM
Did you have a look at this Bob?
It could at least give some ideas :D


Title: Re: Impro-visor
Post by: bvdp on August 05, 2007, 11:57:25 PM
I spent a little of time with this program and readily admit that it is a nice piece of programming. But, let's not start to do too much comparing ... we're not in competition AND the programs, IMHO, have quite different goals and uses. Nothing  in this message is intended to knock or flame other programs ... and if anyone starts doing that here I'll be the first to ask the moderator to delete the posts.

I think when I started to write MMA I would have been quite happy with results like impro-visor is creating. MMA does much more, and less. If you start to play with the various options in MMA like volume control, instrument articulation, etc. you'll quickly see a lot of power under the hood. Of course, this comes with a price: complexity.

I really don't find the lack of a GUI in MMA to be a problem. If it is for you then don't use it, or write one and share it with the community (typical open-source arrogance on my part).

Lessons? Yeah ... but, in my own defense, I never really thought that MMA would work at all. It started out as a test to see if I could create MIDI files in Python. Unfortunately, it grew beyond this minor goal. Along the way I should have started over ... but, that is history. Here's a few if I were to rewrite MMA or do a MMA2:

- much stricter rules in the library files. I'd probably only permit a single set of grooves to be defined in a file. See the library naming thread on this forum.

- MMA is pretty much freeform ... and better syntax would make it better. I fear it is too late for that.

- perhaps a complete split between the library and the user song files in format.

For now, I do think we need to solidify the basic engine (I do keep finding bugs!) and the library name thing does need resolution. I really do hope some folks can make suggestions on this ... I'm really quite confused on it.

Some GUI tools to create sequences/grooves would be handy. It is much easier to see (for example) a bass pattern presented graphically than as a series of numbers.

I look at programs like BiaB and impro-visor and always end up scratching my head a bit. Why, I have to ask, is there such a focus on melody? After all, isn't that my job as a musician? The only reason I use a program like MMA is that I need practice playing (melody!) AND I don't have kind, understand, consistent musicians at my beck and call at any hour of the day or night. Elton John has a bit of a rant going about the internet killing creativity and that playing with real people is so much better ... he's right ... but music in a box is better than no music at all! Mind you, a lot of things in this world cause me to scratch .... but that is a different thread!

I wonder if folks are really using much of MMA? Or do they just enter a set of chords with a groove name at the top of the file? That is if they don't just use one of the supplied song files ... or, being a bit negative, use the program at all? Seriously, I know that Kara uses MMA and I certainly use it just about every day. So, that's 2 happy users :)

Title: Re: Impro-visor
Post by: kara on August 15, 2007, 07:51:04 AM
I agree it is 2 different softwares with different goals.

I wonder allso how many active users of MMA there are out there. I see on this forum that the post have a very high 'read' count but very few active posters. Since this is actually the only real product forum we have I would think that there are actually quit some users out there.
On the other hand, since MMA isn't realy a product you can use out of the box, which means that you have to learn it first and RTFM, it is surprising that there aren't any questions here...

I'll think about some strategie to get this going a bit more....


Title: Re: Impro-visor
Post by: bvdp on August 15, 2007, 06:53:22 PM
Either that or the program is so wonderfully written and the manual is so detailed and concise ... well, now that we have had our laugh of the day :)

Seriously, I do wonder the same. I do get some private email on topics, and they often lead to bug fixes and new features. I agree with David that this stuff should go though this forum!

Title: Re: Impro-visor
Post by: kara on August 15, 2007, 07:14:52 PM
Well that's why this forum has been created.
Now if it would show some live here, I would be willing to write some step to step instructions here, but you have to admit that it is not very motivating to write to yourself  :-\

And since I use MMA and write my proper styles for it, I wouldn't need this step by step instructions  ::) ;D

So, in case there is some live here, let us know  ??? ;D


Title: Re: Impro-visor
Post by: bvdp on August 16, 2007, 04:09:23 AM
Remember that Kara wrote the creating a library file tutorial which is distributed with MMA.

I suppose the $64,000.00 question is: what do users need or want in the way of additional tutorials, help, etc?

Title: Re: Impro-visor
Post by: kara on August 16, 2007, 07:25:12 AM
Right Bob

So 'What do you guys need ' ?


Title: Re: Impro-visor
Post by: jon on March 04, 2008, 11:40:27 PM
So 'What do you guys need ' ?
right now im struggling with how to actually play a MMA file.  i plan on using it for jamming - hey a band at my beck and call anytime i want?  what more could a sax player want?  change the tempo, chords, rhythms, instrumentation any way i want with no arguing with real people and then i can improvise!  i hope to get good enuf that real jazz musicians would invite me on stage for a tune  :;  but meanwhile how to play an MMA file?