Kara-Moon Forum
April 29, 2024, 04:01:24 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: You can go back to the main site here: Kara-Moon site
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Custom Guitar Samples...  (Read 13352 times)
elwoodblues1969
Kara-Moon Master
****
Posts: 4478


Studiophile,Audiophile & Synthophile.


« on: September 10, 2009, 09:39:28 PM »

Since having dealt with years of frustration with the limitations & expense of acquiring usable guitar samples in hardware keyboards and after having done some heavy guitar sampling with Wyatt's axe tracks.......I thought it pertinent & pragmatic for me to seriously consider adding an actual guitar to my studio.
Another contributing factor that has lead me to this idea,is that because of the Roland Fantom G's enormous sampling memory-along with it's very crafty editing tools,the possibilities for a vast & virtually infinite assortment of guitar sounds at merely the price of a budget guitar,sounds like the most novel approach.
While the Fantom G does include some of the old SRX library of guitar samples,I suspect that there won't be much of a selection & not only are the new ARX expansion cards $449 a piece,but Roland has yet to make a expansion card that has guitar samples and there's no telling if or when,this will happen

All this being said,I am seeking some input from the veteran axe players here on this forum-as I will very much value your advice and there is a world of choices in the axe world that I have to sift through. Shocked
I am speculating that for the price of one Roland ARX card,I could probably get a halfway decent guitar for around $400 or $500,so this is my perceived budget amount for an axe.
Essentially,I am hoping that-for this said price range,I could find an axe with decent pick-ups,action,fret board and a sturdy overall design(within reason).
If it is necessary for me to spend an additional $200 to $300 more to obtain a decent level of quality,than I am prepared to do so,as I think a real guitar would be the most economical solution to produce the guitar samples I'm after.
The immense array of choices are clearly overwhelming-but I'll begin with what I primarily want,which is an electric guitar,but I'm utterly uncertain as to whether or not I would want a solid body,or a semi-hollow body guitar.
Currently,I am considering Epiphone,Fender,Ibanez,Squier or Schecter....but I obviously do not know what the pro's & con's are of each,so I need some advice on this to narrow down my search.
Apart form the axe,I was also considering a rackmount multi-effects unit,with cabinet simulation & all of the trimmings,but I may just use the built in effects of the Roland Fantom G,once I have the keyboard.
I'm in no rush to buy an axe,as I will not have the Fantom G paid off until April of next year,so I'm going to take my own sweet time........

Any and all input/advice would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance,

-Thom
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 09:43:12 PM by elwoodblues1969 » Logged

MarioD
Kara-Moon Master
****
Posts: 4341


« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 12:09:10 AM »

Hi Thom, asking what guitar should I buy is like asking what car should I buy.  You will get a different answer from everyone you ask. But having said that here is my answer to you assuming that you are  a beginning guitarist while trying to keep within your budget.

For your guitar I would suggest a solid body with either single coils like this strat http://www.rondomusic.com/sst573ts.html or a solid body with humbucker pickups like this http://www.rondomusic.com/shadow2ts.html .  Note that both of these guitars are very inexpensive but both are outstanding values.  Both are easy to play and perfect guitars for beginner guitarists.  Note that single coil pickups are noisier than humbuckers so you may have to turn your computer monitor off or move away from it when recording. Humbuckers cancel the noise thus are very quiet even close to the computer monitor.  FWIW I use a $70 strat as my single coil guitar.

What you didn’t mention was a guitar amp.  What I would suggest is an amp modeler that connects directly to your computer/mixing board. There are many but I use Behringer’s V-Amp Pro http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHVAMPPRO . I have heard that Behringer’s Bass amp pro http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHVAMPBASSPRO is also an excellent choice for guitarist.  However I have no experience with it.  The V-Amp Pro comes with a ton of presets and you can either tweak them and/or make your own amps from scratch.  It also has a ton of effects for you to use. 

As you can see the total cost of one guitar and the V-Amp is just under $300. Google Rondo music for more guitar selections and information.

I hope this helps.

If I can be of service feel free to contact me - MarioD
Logged

The older I get the better I was!
Fred S
Moderators Views
Hero Member
********
Posts: 689



« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2009, 02:41:48 AM »

I'd suggest going to your local music store and playing them...a lot. They all feel different. After going back and forth for the last 1.5 years I finally decided to focus on my Les Paul. It just "feels" better to me. It is usually a very personal decision.
Logged

elwoodblues1969
Kara-Moon Master
****
Posts: 4478


Studiophile,Audiophile & Synthophile.


« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2009, 02:59:23 AM »

Mario,

I knew going in,that my request was a broad one,but I was just hoping to avoid buying a lemon,for lack of knowledge...so any & all input-will at least,narrow the search a bit & perhaps save me from buying a piece of junk.
I'll definately stick with humbuckers,as I don't want to go too cheap & have to deal with noise,so this is very helpful info-thank you. Cool
Once I get the Roland paid off after I buy it in November,I'll be ready to make a down payment with Zzounds & arrange for payments,so laying down-say,$500 won't be a problem....so I'd like to get the best that 5 bills will provide me-and subsequently decent samples from it.
I never intended on buying a guitar amp-but rather,a preamp or better yet,the amp modeler you suggested...I'll check out the Behringer.

Thanks a mint for your help-much appreciated! Cheesy

-Thom   Update; I checked out the Behringer rack...seems like a great value,but the Roland Fantom G has a HI-Z input for guitar,so I'm guessing that the built in effects processor in the Roland has everything covered and in the "studio mode" of the keyboard,there are 22 insert effects,so I may not need anything else aside from the guitar.......perhaps a regular guitar amp just for practicing,might be in order,but that won't be a high priority...at least not for a while.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 03:33:18 AM by elwoodblues1969 » Logged

elwoodblues1969
Kara-Moon Master
****
Posts: 4478


Studiophile,Audiophile & Synthophile.


« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2009, 03:07:10 AM »

Fred,

Yeah....I'll definitely check out the action when I'm ready to buy one,but having picked up a few in the past,I at least know at this point,that I want a lightweight one.

Thanks,

-Thom
Logged

Oren
Moderator
Kara-Moon Master
*****
Posts: 5444


...just looking for clues...


« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2009, 08:23:40 AM »

Since having dealt with years of frustration with the limitations & expense of acquiring usable guitar samples in hardware keyboards and after having done some heavy guitar sampling with Wyatt's axe tracks.......I thought it pertinent & pragmatic for me to seriously consider adding an actual guitar to my studio.

Thom,

I don't know what is entailed in creating samples suitable for emulating a guitarist, but had you considered sampling the instruments from players here at K-M?

Much of the tone and character of a guitar note or phrase is dependent on the player's technique, and there are folks here who have spent many years getting it right. Likewise, some of our members own the very best guitars money can buy, and have them tweaked to the max. To me, it makes sense to get your samples from this source rather than buying your own axe and learning how to play.

It sounds like a cool project, and I would be happy to contribute sounds from both my G&Ls. Just tell me what you need.
Once you have all the samples edited and organized, it could be quite an impressive resource.... Cool
Logged

kara
Kara-Moon, a site built by and for musicians
Global Moderator
Kara-Moon Master
*****
Posts: 4907


Music is my middle name


WWW
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2009, 09:29:05 AM »

A KM-sampling project, sounds pretty cool to me  Cool

k
Logged

_____oOo______ http://www.myspace.com/kaazduo

www.kara-moon.com, a site built by and for musicians
Support us at : http://www.mymajorcompany.com/Artistes/kaaz/
elwoodblues1969
Kara-Moon Master
****
Posts: 4478


Studiophile,Audiophile & Synthophile.


« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2009, 04:03:00 PM »

Oren,

I like a lot of the guitar riffs & chords that are found in old motown music,such as the platters and I was also thinking of 2 or 3 octave scales worth of single notes...just simple sustained notes,for making pad-like sounds for use in chord progressions.

Apart from that,I'm not certain what I want exactly..especially since I don't know precisely what kind of samples the Roland will come with,as I only know that Roland has taken certain selections from each expansion sound set from the SRX library and added it to the Fantom G.
I'm eventually going to buy the "Electrified Guitar" refill from Propellerhead,which has an assortment of vintage Gibsons & Gretsch sounds...here's the list; http://soundsandeffects.com/Electrified%20QUP%206%204%2007.mp3

Yours is a very generous offer & I appreciate it and I'm sorry I can't be more specific in what I want,but I have yet to master the art of sampling & I obviously have yet to buy,learn & navigate my way around the Roland-so once I do that,I'll be in a more enlightened position to tell you precisely what I want.

My Korg is an adequate sampler,but I don't have it completely figured out yet,but it's clearly not as advanced as the sampler in the Roland-but in any event,I need to learn to do more refined sample editing,so that I may make more seamless sample patches.

The K-M sample project is an insanely novel idea Oren....I deeply dig it!

-Thom
Logged

MarioD
Kara-Moon Master
****
Posts: 4341


« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2009, 05:08:41 PM »

Thom, another option may be to do collaborations with the guitarists on the forum.  You do the song and we do the guitar part only.

Think of the possibilities!


Logged

The older I get the better I was!
kara
Kara-Moon, a site built by and for musicians
Global Moderator
Kara-Moon Master
*****
Posts: 4907


Music is my middle name


WWW
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2009, 06:22:40 PM »

Thom, another option may be to do collaborations with the guitarists on the forum.  You do the song and we do the guitar part only.

Think of the possibilities!




My usual technique Smiley

k
Logged

_____oOo______ http://www.myspace.com/kaazduo

www.kara-moon.com, a site built by and for musicians
Support us at : http://www.mymajorcompany.com/Artistes/kaaz/
elwoodblues1969
Kara-Moon Master
****
Posts: 4478


Studiophile,Audiophile & Synthophile.


« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2009, 07:03:18 PM »

Mario,

I think I may just do all of the above....the K-M sample project,the collabs a-n-d eventually buy a guitar at some point,as there is no such thing as overdosing on guitar sounds!
Cool Grin

-Thom
Logged

offthewall
Kara-Moon-Collective
Kara-Moon Master
**
Posts: 2571



WWW
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2009, 08:59:28 PM »

 Cool
Hey, Thom,

I just looked in on this topic, and am a bit bemused by it .....

surely there is a world of difference between buying a guitar ... and being able to play it .... even so slightly as to provide samples ...  Shocked

That being said .... I have a number of guitars and basses (please don't ask my wife!) of varying levels of 'professionalism', which have all been picked up from markets or ebay for very small dollar.

The message being that, if you are not a 'seasoned and experienced' player, the amount you spend on your equipment can be totally wasted.

I don't have much time tonight, but I will come back to this topic with some advice and/or recommendations for equipment if you intend to pursue this project.  Cool

Furthermore .... the idea of creating a K-M sampling project sounds like an interesting idea to me.
I would be willing to provide samples of acoustic/electric guitars, acoustic/electric basses, mandolin/bouzouki ........if I am told how to do it  ....  Roll Eyes
it's a whole new world to me ...  Shocked

 Wink
James
Logged

elwoodblues1969
Kara-Moon Master
****
Posts: 4478


Studiophile,Audiophile & Synthophile.


« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2009, 11:53:10 PM »

James,

I certainly don't expect to ever be able to play Jimi Hendrix style,or bottleneck,flamenco or anything even remotely close to this,much less anything that's considered "seasoned"...but I don't think spending $300 or $400 on a guitar,would be a total waste.
All you folks who are fluent guitar players,also fiddle around with keyboards and/or midi controllers & software instruments for accompaniment purposes and I would never tell anyone that their money spent on these items,are a total waste,because they're in fact-not,a waste at all.
I would just like to expand myself and be more flexible as a musician,just as you all have done.
Furthermore,I never expected to produce professional sounding samples either,as I am not a "seasoned" sample artist either....I just make do with what I picked up on my own accord,as I have only done some basic sampling in the past 3 or 4 years.
I appreciate that you are trying to save me some coin and believe me,I never intend on going crazy and spending thousands on a custom Gibson Les Paul...not ever...not in this lifetime anyway. Wink Grin

Feel free to lay any advice on me that you want & I will be grateful,but just know that I do not want a guitar that you would find at a Wal-Mart.
About 14 years ago,I bought a second hand,rebuilt guitar from a friend for $50-which seemed like a suitable starting point,but it was noisy,rattly lemon that would not hold it's tuning-I just want to avoid that.
A close friend of mine who I grew up with-who now resides in Florida,had given me some pointers on which guitars had good pick-ups(can't recall which ones now),but regardless of my novice status of playing,I don't see the point-in any situation,to buy a guitar with piss poor pick ups in them,a flimsy neck or bridge,or a body that's going to warp if I fart within the vicinity of it.

So yes-in a word,I wish to pursue the idea of buying a guitar,but as I said in the beginning of this thread,it's a long term goal,so I will not even be ready to buy one,until May of next year.

As for the sampling project..well,there's really not too much required on you're part,meaning that you could play single single notes,strums,riffs or pretty much anything,because all of the details and refinements are done in the sampling process............
....such as changing the duration,pitch,attack,timbre or what have you,as there are many ways to manipulate an external sound source,once it's been recorded into the flash ram memory.

The way that I constructed my version of Wyatt's tune,is that I began with editing Wyatt's audio files in Audacity,by trimming down a series of designated points in a track and then burning these series of segments onto CD..Then while the CD was in play while hooked up to my audio inputs of my keyboard,I depressed the sample record button at the desired moment and each sample is assigned to an individual note on the keyboard.
Further trimming refinements are also possible within the keyboard's editing mode and once all the sampling is completed,all of the samples can be assigned as just another program patch in the keyboard and these samples can be played like any other instrument in the keyboard's sound set.

So really-all that's required on your part,is to play what leaps to mind and just go crazy,put it into an audio file & send it to me, and I'll take it from there(as I now think that asking anyone to do something specific,is just going to make things complicated),as I really don't have a precise game plan myself.

Anything that you,or anyone else comes up with,will be very useful to me,believe me. Cheesy

There's really no rush at all for this project,so whenever you have the time,is perfectly fine.

Thanks,

-Thom



Logged

Oren
Moderator
Kara-Moon Master
*****
Posts: 5444


...just looking for clues...


« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2009, 02:28:33 AM »

The K-M sample project is an insanely novel idea Oren....I deeply dig it!
Thom,
I'm down with that. Let's embark on it as a long-term maneuver. You get to be the Gipper. Establish what you want and when you want it; we'll build up the sample selection a piece at a time, then organize it into a downloadable package.
This could be huge...
Logged

offthewall
Kara-Moon-Collective
Kara-Moon Master
**
Posts: 2571



WWW
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2009, 12:09:38 PM »

 Cool
Thom,

All I meant was .... in my experience, if you don't intend to go out on the road gigging you can find some excellent bargains which can hold up extremely well to home studio work.

Examples:
Genuine Fender acoustic guitar.  £15 ($25) from a market. No work needed other than new strings.

Fender 'Squier' Telecaster, with genuine Fender single coil pick-ups.  £15 ($25) from boot sale. Selector switch to replace (£5), new strings and set-up (1 days work)

Gibson 'Epiphone' Les Paul Special, with genuine Gibson hum-buckers.  £40 ($66) from Ebay.  Selector switch to replace (£5), new strings and set-up (1 days work).

I realise these are all 'lucky' purchases, but with a bit of perseverance there are plenty out there for those of us who have to do everything on a tight budget.

 Wink
James


* FenderAcoust.jpg (330.63 KB, 903x1497 - viewed 618 times.)

* SquierTele.jpg (373.53 KB, 791x1666 - viewed 548 times.)

* LPspecial.jpg (325.94 KB, 758x1447 - viewed 547 times.)
Logged

Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.062 seconds with 20 queries.